The Vault is just terrible.

The vault is awful in a large number of ways. I'm going to enumerate each of them here:

Sorting

Can anyone tell me what "Default" sorting sorts by? It seems to be guns first, armor second, and mods last, but otherwise is completely random and reshuffles itself every time you put in or take out an item.

The other sorts are just as useless: "recent" - why? Who cares when I got an item. Old versions of Gun X are the same as new versions, with the only possible difference being power level. But I can't sort by power level! "Quantity" is beyond dumb because it sorts by the number of items in a stack, and not the number of actual items. So if I have, say, five versions of Gun X, they are all sorted as items where you only have 1 of them, and are randomly mixed with the other items I have, so I can't immediately tell that I have more versions of that gun. Awful. "Rarity" is equally stupid. I can easily tell what the rarity is by the graphics, and there's never been a situation where I thought, gee, I'd love all of my rare shaders to be mixed up with my rare weapons, but clearly distinct from the legendary versions.

What sorts would be useful?

Well, here's what I want from my sorts, and why I cycle through all available options (in vain) every time I open it:

- Sort alphabetically by name. This should be a no-brainer for every sortable list of things with names, ever. I need to find MIDA. I have seven pages of items. Sort by name, scroll to the M's... done. Plus I would immediately see that my sort revealed I actually have three MIDAs! WOW. Delete two. Done.

- Sort by class of item. Snipers, Pulse Rifles, hand cannons, etc... Group every weapon of the same class together. Again, this should be a no-brainer.

- Sort by power level. Why can't we do this? It seems like it would result in such a mish-mash of items that it would make whoever designed the current sorts really happy. But seriously, this should be an option.

- This last one is not, I think, a no-brainer, but I'd also like to flag items as "favorites" and then sort by favorites to get those favorites first, and everything else last.

And here's the real kicker - I'd love to be able to apply and and all of these shaders in the order of my choosing. Class first, then power, then name? Or favorites first, then class? Why not? We should be able to choose any number of properties of the items (show me only guns with dragonfly or outlaw, please) and have the vault sort them accordingly.

- Even less obvious, I'd love to be able to mark loadouts and just say "give me loadout A" and have all of my gear swapped in and out of the vault to match my selected loadout. Okay, this is getting a bit out-there. I know.

existing

But why does the vault even exist in the first place? Anyone who played Destiny 1 should know that Bungie makes wild changes to the meta on a bi-annual whim, resulting in huge power swings between guns. The result is that you save one of everything so that when the meta shifts, you can shift with it. And you what's better than saving one of everything in a giant disorganized vault that very likely has two of everything but you can't very well tell because the sorting options are terrible? Just keeping a list of items you've found and unlocking them as you find them so you can swap in and out with anything you've already found at your current max power level (why is power level even a thing in this game? I digress, that's a topic for another day). Seriously, we already have a kiosk for unlocked exotics. How hard would it be to make a kiosk for unlocked legendaries, too? The answer is: It wouldn't be. The vault shouldn't even exist in its current form, imo.

things it's missing

Checklists. Collecting stuff was my favorite part of D1, but the current vault only lists things you've found without listing any of the things you're missing. That's lame. Show me how many more exotics, emotes, and emblems there are, please!

Spaceships. Why can I not collect spaceships anymore? Looks like 27 will be the limit.

Shaders. Seriously there's no reason for these to be consumables. Just unlock them like the last game.

Sparrows. Same as spaceships. Silly.

---

summary

The TL;DR here is that the vault is awful and should be replaced with a glorified kiosk, sortable in a myriad of ways.

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This much I know, it sorts guns by primary/energy/heavy.

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recent sorting is nice in case you accidentally put the wrong thing in the vault. other than that, the vault is terrible.

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No, seriously, I think the reason they put so little work into making the Vault useful is because DIM is so great. Why reinvent the wheel?

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No, seriously, I think the reason they put so little work into making the Vault useful is because DIM is so great. Why reinvent the wheel?

The grimoire was pretty great, but ZOMG ITZ NOT IN TEH GAME.

Well, correct sorting also isn't in the game.

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No, seriously, I think the reason they put so little work into making the Vault useful is because DIM is so great. Why reinvent the wheel?

The grimoire was pretty great, but ZOMG ITZ NOT IN TEH GAME.

Well, correct sorting also isn't in the game.

True enough. I wasn't actually saying it was - I was simply saying there's a better solution already in existence.

And yes, I meant 'better'. Messaging from my Xbox exists - but I don't use it because it sucks. I use xbox.com on a computer or a phone, because I can type/text 10000000x faster than I can message on my xbox.

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No, seriously, I think the reason they put so little work into making the Vault useful is because DIM is so great. Why reinvent the wheel?

The grimoire was pretty great, but ZOMG ITZ NOT IN TEH GAME.

Well, correct sorting also isn't in the game.

True enough. I wasn't actually saying it was - I was simply saying there's a better solution already in existence.

And yes, I meant 'better'. Messaging from my Xbox exists - but I don't use it because it sucks. I use xbox.com on a computer or a phone, because I can type/text 10000000x faster than I can message on my xbox.

I think it's always better to have it right there. A sort by type in game would be far more convenient than managing that on a smartphone or laptop.

This is where we are nowadays. I feel like so much of Destiny, from item management, to game mechanics, to story has to be supplemented from outside sources in order to fully understand / utilize.

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This is where we are nowadays. I feel like so much of Destiny, from item management, to game mechanics, to story has to be supplemented from outside sources in order to fully understand / utilize.

The game should be complimented, not reliant on external functions.

Besides, I leave my phone in the other room all the time and I can't be bothered to get up to get it. As if.

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For most of the time I was playing Destiny 1, my cell phone was, you know, just a cell phone. Had a little hingey dealie and a whole dozen buttons and everything.

I did have a laptop, but still, I just didn't use inventory management tools much. I'm sure there are still people like me in Destiny 2, if less of them now. (Taking stuff like that for granted kinda rubs me the wrong way, even though I'm basically glued to the internet and my smartphone.)

It seems dumb to just go "There's an app for this, so who cares about the core in-game functionality".

Xbox typing is really slow, but you can't really fix that without adding a different external device, some kind of keyboard you plug into your controller or something. This... really isn't that?

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It seems dumb to just go "There's an app for this, so who cares about the core in-game functionality".

Let's be clear: I never said that, or anything like that. I said that I thought that one of the reasons they might have phoned in Vault development was because there was such a good tool already available.

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Wasn't meaning to put those words in your mouth.

More that I think that if the actual phoning in was because of the app, that would be dumb. Because it would be, well. What I said. Except maybe replace "so who cares about this" with "so we don't need to put much effort into", as that probably makes it more clear that it's not meant to imply laziness and lack of caring but rather a matter of priority, like everything else.

I haven't had problems, though I have jack shit to keep in there, with my one character, disregard for the meta, and shorter time spent playing, so that basically says zilch. I just think the app immediately being lept to is a little silly, since nobody else was saying, 'Well, what about people who don't have the app'?

Probably because it's an online game and this is a web forum you need a computer to access, I guess.

But again, not trying to put words in your mouth; honestly you came off to me more 'Well this app exists and can offer some of the stuff you want to have available so you can look into that' than anything.

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It seems dumb to just go "There's an app for this, so who cares about the core in-game functionality".

Let's be clear: I never said that, or anything like that. I said that I thought that one of the reasons they might have phoned in Vault development was because there was such a good tool already available.

Even if there are other better tools available, that doesn’t mean you can phone it in.

Adobe Premiere used to have great tracking tools, that you could use for a variety of things like quick and dirty vfx, temp comp, etc. Adobe removed this and told everyone to use after effects instead, because it had way better tracking tools. They added integration between premiere and after effects.

They are technically correct when they say AE has better tracking tools, but there was a huge uproar. See, the convenience of a decent but not nessesarily top notch tracker in Premiere beat out the need to go to AE for everything in the opinions of many. Having a nice set of tools at your fingertips is great, and you go to AE when you need more complexity.

Basic functionality should be in the game. Advanced stuff can be in the app. Sorting by type is basic.

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It seems dumb to just go "There's an app for this, so who cares about the core in-game functionality".

Let's be clear: I never said that, or anything like that. I said that I thought that one of the reasons they might have phoned in Vault development was because there was such a good tool already available.

Even if there are other better tools available, that doesn’t mean you can phone it in.

Adobe Premiere used to have great tracking tools, that you could use for a variety of things like quick and dirty vfx, temp comp, etc. Adobe removed this and told everyone to use after effects instead, because it had way better tracking tools. They added integration between premiere and after effects.

They are technically correct when they say AE has better tracking tools, but there was a huge uproar. See, the convenience of a decent but not nessesarily top notch tracker in Premiere beat out the need to go to AE for everything in the opinions of many. Having a nice set of tools at your fingertips is great, and you go to AE when you need more complexity.

Basic functionality should be in the game. Advanced stuff can be in the app. Sorting by type is basic.

Good example. Agreed with you... right until the end. Fact is, we never even had sorting before. Now, after getting it, you’re declaring it not good enough. The real kicker is, we have an example of basic funtionality in the D1.0 Vault. Every other version is a step up about that.

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Good example. Agreed with you... right until the end. Fact is, we never even had sorting before.

That's absolutely not true. The D1 vault was auto sorted between weapons, armor, and misc by default. In that regard, the D2 vault is a massive step backwards, where everything is just thrown together.

I was pulling shit out of the vault a few nights ago to dismantle a bunch of junk I had stored in there, and it literally re-randomized the order of items every time I pulled something out. So not only did the sorting not make any sense to begin with, I couldn't even go down the line pulling things out with the order of items changing every time I interacted with the fucking thing. The D2 vault is absolute garbage.

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That’s not really what I think of as sorting. Maybe more like... grouping? Anyway, yeah, the current Vault is not where it should be, but it does have more than basic functionality. Hopefully it will improve in the say way that D1’s did.

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That’s not really what I think of as sorting. Maybe more like... grouping?

Sure. But sorting wouldn’t be such an issue if at least had those groupings again.

I’m sure it’ll improve, too. Ultimately I don’t care much, because I am one of those folks that always uses the app and probably always will. I just hope we get improvements to the Collections tab, really.

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This is where we are nowadays. I feel like so much of Destiny, from item management, to game mechanics, to story has to be supplemented from outside sources in order to fully understand / utilize.

The game should be complimented, not reliant on external functions.

Besides, I leave my phone in the other room all the time and I can't be bothered to get up to get it. As if.

This is exactly how I feel. Thank you.

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No, seriously, I think the reason they put so little work into making the Vault useful is because DIM is so great. Why reinvent the wheel?

Exactly. Not that I don't share some of his complaints. I wish some of DIM's features were in the game.

And while I'm here, I know DIM has is:dupe, but I wish it had a dedicated "show duplicates" action available in the interface, like Tower Ghost did.

I also hope the new Tower Ghost or another app develops the equivalent of the Tier 12 loadout feature that was in the old Tower Ghost app.

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No, seriously, I think the reason they put so little work into making the Vault useful is because DIM is so great. Why reinvent the wheel?

they could've at least made the vault the same from D1 with the different tabs

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Sorting by type is needed pretty badly. That's really the one that makes the most sense.

Who cares WHEN you acquired the gun? You care WHAT it is.

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Sorting by type is needed pretty badly. That's really the one that makes the most sense.

Who cares WHEN you acquired the gun? You care WHAT it is.

Sorting by time of acquisition is very useful, I think. Helps me know for certain that I'm deleting older versions of my weapons and gear. Also helped me avoid deleting my first Curtain Call (Has a great shader on it).

That said, the official Destiny App does give you a number of other sorting options:

And that includes sorting by types,

and even lets you sort it on a per-character basis:

(No, I don't know why the game spams me with so many of the same helmet for my Hunter, but not the class item...)
Not sure why the in-game Vault doesn't have those options, though...

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Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

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Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie assumed everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

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Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie assumed everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

I understand your argument. As a counterpoint, load times are unavoidable, and it's become a routine part of my Destiny playing rhythm to use apps during that load time to manage items. It's actually more efficient than if I had to do it in the game, especially when it comes to moving things in and out of the vault.

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I understand your argument. As a counterpoint, load times are unavoidable, and it's become a routine part of my Destiny playing rhythm to use apps during that load time to manage items. It's actually more efficient than if I had to do it in the game, especially when it comes to moving things in and out of the vault.

This so much. I die a little inside every time we have to make a quick tower trip for someone to get something out of the vault. Using the app while you load into an activity is so much faster and easier.

I'm not saying the vault shouldn't be better--it absolutely should! Mainly in the form of collections. The kiosks were much better, except maybe having to run around the tower to get to them all. I hope the collections get revamped so that we can see where you get stuff, see all the stuff we don't have, etc.

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3229 views

Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie correctly interpreted three years worth of API data and judged that most everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

There. Fixed that for ya.

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Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie correctly interpreted three years worth of API data and judged that most everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

There. Fixed that for ya.

Please don't put these words in my mouth. Seeing that people preferred to use apps to the in-game vault in D1 could just have easily told Bungie that the vault sucked and needed fixing, rather than telling Bungie that an app is the right solution. Correlation does not equal causation.

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Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie correctly interpreted three years worth of API data and judged that most everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

There. Fixed that for ya.

Please don't put these words in my mouth. Seeing that people preferred to use apps to the in-game vault in D1 could just have easily told Bungie that the vault sucked and needed fixing, rather than telling Bungie that an app is the right solution. Correlation does not equal causation.

So... your stance is that... it could have meant literally anything? I disagree. There would have been API data. Internal play tests. External play tests. Reading news articles and reviews. Venturing into Reddit. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I don’t even disagree that the new vault is a decent step backwards, but trying to ignore my good point because correlation does not equal causation is... heh... weak at best. As is assuming that Bungie assumed.

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3226 views

Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie correctly interpreted three years worth of API data and judged that most everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

There. Fixed that for ya.

Please don't put these words in my mouth. Seeing that people preferred to use apps to the in-game vault in D1 could just have easily told Bungie that the vault sucked and needed fixing, rather than telling Bungie that an app is the right solution. Correlation does not equal causation.

So... your stance is that... it could have meant literally anything? I disagree. There would have been API data. Internal play tests. External play tests. Reading news articles and reviews. Venturing into Reddit. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I don’t even disagree that the new vault is a decent step backwards, but trying to ignore my good point because correlation does not equal causation is... heh... weak at best. As is assuming that Bungie assumed.

lol @ "FTFY" = "my good point"

I'm glad you agree with me that the in-game vault is bad, even if it took you a double-negative to admit it.

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3185 views

Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie correctly interpreted three years worth of API data and judged that most everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

There. Fixed that for ya.

Please don't put these words in my mouth. Seeing that people preferred to use apps to the in-game vault in D1 could just have easily told Bungie that the vault sucked and needed fixing, rather than telling Bungie that an app is the right solution. Correlation does not equal causation.

So... your stance is that... it could have meant literally anything? I disagree. There would have been API data. Internal play tests. External play tests. Reading news articles and reviews. Venturing into Reddit. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I don’t even disagree that the new vault is a decent step backwards, but trying to ignore my good point because correlation does not equal causation is... heh... weak at best. As is assuming that Bungie assumed.

lol @ "FTFY" = "my good point"

So, you’re going to play the role of Cody Miller and outright ignore everything you disagree with, huh? As stated above, my point is that the current state of the Vault most likely is the result of three years worth of data collection, of both analytics and opinion & moods, combined with the normal pressure and shifting priorities of shipping a massive multimillion dollar piece of entertainment software. It sure is heck a better guess than “It's like Bungie assumed everyone would use the app all the time...”

Frankly, if you’re not gonna give me even an inch you will not receive one in return.

I'm glad you agree with me that the in-game vault is bad, even if it took you a double-negative to admit it.

It is obvious that the Vault is not where it should be. It is not obvious as to the actual reason why. In cases like this, you are constantly and consistently negative as to those reasons. And it is deeply frustrating. Unfortunately, it is exactly what I expect from you every sing,e time I see you have posted.

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3166 views

Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie correctly interpreted three years worth of API data and judged that most everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

There. Fixed that for ya.

Please don't put these words in my mouth. Seeing that people preferred to use apps to the in-game vault in D1 could just have easily told Bungie that the vault sucked and needed fixing, rather than telling Bungie that an app is the right solution. Correlation does not equal causation.

So... your stance is that... it could have meant literally anything? I disagree. There would have been API data. Internal play tests. External play tests. Reading news articles and reviews. Venturing into Reddit. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I don’t even disagree that the new vault is a decent step backwards, but trying to ignore my good point because correlation does not equal causation is... heh... weak at best. As is assuming that Bungie assumed.

lol @ "FTFY" = "my good point"

So, you’re going to play the role of Cody Miller and outright ignore everything you disagree with, huh? As stated above, my point is that the current state of the Vault most likely is the result of three years worth of data collection, of both analytics and opinion & moods, combined with the normal pressure and shifting priorities of shipping a massive multimillion dollar piece of entertainment software. It sure is heck a better guess than “It's like Bungie assumed everyone would use the app all the time...”

Frankly, if you’re not gonna give me even an inch you will not receive one in return.

I'm glad you agree with me that the in-game vault is bad, even if it took you a double-negative to admit it.

It is obvious that the Vault is not where it should be. It is not obvious as to the actual reason why. In cases like this, you are constantly and consistently negative as to those reasons. And it is deeply frustrating. Unfortunately, it is exactly what I expect from you every sing,e time I see you have posted.

If you didn't attack people with combative and insulting posts all the time you'd find more positive responses.

Look at this thread: You replied to me with what is essentially a troll-grade post. Then you complained that it didn't get a well reasoned and thoughtful response from me, and you're finishing your complaint with a personal attack. I want to respect you, because I see in threads that you initiate that you are a smart and well-reasoned person. In your replies, however, you are frequently insulting (and not just to me). You're the king of demanding people post links to evidence while often making baseless (and linkless) claims, yourself. That bungie designed the vault based on 3 years of API data, for example, and that such imagined data (however likely it may be to exist) "obviously" supports making a good app and bad vault. This is exactly the sort of claim you often call others out on and it reeks of hypocrisy.

If you had replied with "I agree that the vault is a step back from D1, but I think it may be permissible since the app is so much better" that would not have garnered the "lol raga troll" response I gave you because it would have been both polite and contributing to the conversation.

At this point, it's probably better we if just stop replying to one another's posts. I think it's bringing down the atmosphere here on dbo and I don't like feeling like I'm fighting with someone for no reason.

If you feel compelled to reply, let's discuss something positive: Did you know I found a cool shortcut in the EDZ yesterday? It was neat! And I posted a map and everything!

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If you didn't attack people with combative and insulting posts all the time you'd find more positive responses.

Look at this thread: You replied to me with what is essentially a troll-grade post. Then you complained that it didn't get a well reasoned and thoughtful response from me, and you're finishing your complaint with a personal attack. I want to respect you, because I see in threads that you initiate that you are a smart and well-reasoned person. In your replies, however, you are frequently insulting (and not just to me). You're the king of demanding people post links to evidence while often making baseless (and linkless) claims, yourself. That bungie designed the vault based on 3 years of API data, for example, and that such imagined data (however likely it may be to exist) "obviously" supports making a good app and bad vault. This is exactly the sort of claim you often call others out on and it reeks of hypocrisy.

My point was always that Bungie has plenty of usage data to base their development priorities off of. Here's a direct example of Bungie monitoring D1 vault usage, for instance. Not API data, but certainly proof that they monitor usage data. I started by just mentioning the API data because forcing a long list of data points into your quote would have broken the flow.

I ask for proof in extreme cases. Or vs extreme claims. Mine was neither. If you're really going to call me a hypocrite for the claim that: "There would have been API data. Internal play tests. External play tests. Reading news articles and reviews. Venturing into Reddit. Etc. Etc. Etc." then you are so far out of line that you've swung around to being a joke.

If you had replied with "I agree that the vault is a step back from D1, but I think it may be permissible since the app is so much better" that would not have garnered the "lol raga troll" response I gave you because it would have been both polite and contributing to the conversation.

Right. Because "for muh two screen experiunse!" was the height of a polite contribution. You want to improve the atmosphere and raise the level of discourse around here? Clean up your own act.

At this point, it's probably better we if just stop replying to one another's posts. I think it's bringing down the atmosphere here on dbo and I don't like feeling like I'm fighting with someone for no reason.

I am more than happy to have a respectful, reasonable discussion with you. But you sure as heck don't make it easy. Consider your negativity. Consider the amount of work that goes into a game like this. Consider your fellow players, like those who posted here saying they highly value the second screen experience. Insulting all those people like you did was not a way to spur respectful discourse.

You don't want to fight? Think about how your words might relate to and impact others before you post. If you do, you and I won't have any more problems.

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Using the Bungie app, you can also use layered sorts, although they get reset if you click on any other screen ("Details", for instance.)

I find it very useful to sort Power, then Rarity, then Item Type. That way, all items are listed as item type (Auto Rifle, Leg armor, etc) and within that, exotics then legendaries etc, then under that, by power.

I wish "Item Type" would organize by slot instead of alphabetical, though. Aligning with the UI in-game would be best (Kinetic, Energy, Power, Helmet, Arms, Chest, Legs, Class Item).

Yeah, the app sorts are pretty useful. I just wish they were in the real game. It's like Bungie correctly interpreted three years worth of API data and judged that most everyone would use the app all the time "for muh two screen experiunse!"and didn't even bother for those of us who prefer to never have to look away from the game screen.

There. Fixed that for ya.

Please don't put these words in my mouth. Seeing that people preferred to use apps to the in-game vault in D1 could just have easily told Bungie that the vault sucked and needed fixing, rather than telling Bungie that an app is the right solution. Correlation does not equal causation.

So... your stance is that... it could have meant literally anything? I disagree. There would have been API data. Internal play tests. External play tests. Reading news articles and reviews. Venturing into Reddit. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I don’t even disagree that the new vault is a decent step backwards, but trying to ignore my good point because correlation does not equal causation is... heh... weak at best. As is assuming that Bungie assumed.

lol @ "FTFY" = "my good point"

So, you’re going to play the role of Cody Miller and outright ignore everything you disagree with, huh? As stated above, my point is that the current state of the Vault most likely is the result of three years worth of data collection, of both analytics and opinion & moods, combined with the normal pressure and shifting priorities of shipping a massive multimillion dollar piece of entertainment software. It sure is heck a better guess than “It's like Bungie assumed everyone would use the app all the time...”

Frankly, if you’re not gonna give me even an inch you will not receive one in return.

I'm glad you agree with me that the in-game vault is bad, even if it took you a double-negative to admit it.

It is obvious that the Vault is not where it should be. It is not obvious as to the actual reason why. In cases like this, you are constantly and consistently negative as to those reasons. And it is deeply frustrating. Unfortunately, it is exactly what I expect from you every sing,e time I see you have posted.

If you didn't attack people with combative and insulting posts all the time you'd find more positive responses.

Look at this thread: You replied to me with what is essentially a troll-grade post. Then you complained that it didn't get a well reasoned and thoughtful response from me, and you're finishing your complaint with a personal attack. I want to respect you, because I see in threads that you initiate that you are a smart and well-reasoned person. In your replies, however, you are frequently insulting (and not just to me). You're the king of demanding people post links to evidence while often making baseless (and linkless) claims, yourself. That bungie designed the vault based on 3 years of API data, for example, and that such imagined data (however likely it may be to exist) "obviously" supports making a good app and bad vault. This is exactly the sort of claim you often call others out on and it reeks of hypocrisy.

If you had replied with "I agree that the vault is a step back from D1, but I think it may be permissible since the app is so much better" that would not have garnered the "lol raga troll" response I gave you because it would have been both polite and contributing to the conversation.

At this point, it's probably better we if just stop replying to one another's posts. I think it's bringing down the atmosphere here on dbo and I don't like feeling like I'm fighting with someone for no reason.

If you feel compelled to reply, let's discuss something positive: Did you know I found a cool shortcut in the EDZ yesterday? It was neat! And I posted a map and everything!

Not taking sides here, but an extra-game app with additional functionality was envisioned long before D1 came out. I'll also confess that sometimes my reaction to your posts is similar to Raga's. I get the feeling you're accusing Bungie of acting in bad faith regarding aspects you don't like, yet I know you know enough about game development to know that they are complexities we don't know, and how difficult decisions can be regarding how best to apply limited resources. I suspect that for you it's like retail is for me. You'd expect, after working in retail for a decade, that I'd be more sympathetic when I get bad service. I'm less sympathetic, though. It's a hot button for me.

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You'd expect, after working in retail for a decade, that I'd be more sympathetic when I get bad service. I'm less sympathetic, though. It's a hot button for me.

Yeah, I would expect more sympathy. For me, I'm always extra patient and understanding to call center people because I used to work in one. Unless someone is truly going out of their way to be unhelpful (which I don't believe I've actually encountered) I'm happy to flow along with their script or accept when when they just don't have the information they should.

As an example: A few months ago I was waiting on a FedEx shipment at work on Saturday and they straight up did not even stop by to deliver it. They saw they we were normally closed on weekends and rescheduled it for Monday even though it was expressly shipped with a Saturday delivery option / service. The guy at the FedEx call center unhelpfully told me that it had always been set to deliver the next Monday, which was totally and completely false, but I didn't get mad or anything. It was the best information he had so I thanked him for his help and went on with my day. Even though he was on a script. Even though he repeated the same thing to me a couple of times. I picked up the box an hour later at the distribution center and it had giant obvious branded "FedEx Saturday Delivery" stickers all over it but it wasn't the call center guy's fault the delivery driver was lazy or incompetent.

Maybe you've encountered more people who were actually bad at their job instead of just being stuck in them?

(That and you're always so nice on the forum or over chat that it's kinda hard to imagine you really getting mad at anyone! :p)

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(That and you're always so nice on the forum or over chat that it's kinda hard to imagine you really getting mad at anyone! :p)

Some people are spitting out their coffee right now.

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Not taking sides here, but an extra-game app with additional functionality was envisioned long before D1 came out. I'll also confess that sometimes my reaction to your posts is similar to Raga's. I get the feeling you're accusing Bungie of acting in bad faith regarding aspects you don't like, yet I know you know enough about game development to know that they are complexities we don't know, and how difficult decisions can be regarding how best to apply limited resources. I suspect that for you it's like retail is for me. You'd expect, after working in retail for a decade, that I'd be more sympathetic when I get bad service. I'm less sympathetic, though. It's a hot button for me.

That is almost exactly how I feel. Some things seem so obvious to me after years of doing it that omitting them is stunning to me (a "north" arrow on the radar to match our map, for example, or the "sort alphabetically" option for the vault I discuss in the OP). On the other side of the coin, when there's truly brilliant or innovative design, I really try to draw attention to it; especially when the design is subtle.

I dunno if you remember the original Marathon, but there were, iirc, two levels where you had to go outside of the ship and oxygen depletion was a big deal. Here we stand, decades later, and going outside on the Almighty had that same feeling to me of taking a giant step into something I wasn't sure I was fully prepared for. It was great.

It was also the first time outside of a raid or set boss fight that Destiny (1 or 2) had hit me with environmental design that influenced my decision making during combat. It's informed design. The player is really close to the sun, that should burn. Let's put some shade for him to recover it, but the placement of shade isn't arbitrary - anyone in a similar situation would have logically had shade placed for their own recovery. Very clever and logical.

Similarly, that final mission, charging through the streets of the city with other guardians showing up for a block or two at a time... what a rush! You felt compelled forwards, not by the mission, but by the other players. You want to keep up, you want to help out, you want to bond in the fire of battle.

Those two experiences are the best story missions (mechanically) that Bungie has put forward so far in the Destiny series. They both reek of the Bungie design found in Marathon and Halo. You used to be able to call out missions as "the sniper level" or "the night level" or the "level with all of the tanks." Most Destiny missions up to this point were "the level where you kill a bunch of Thrall and then fight a giant ogre" which could be like five different levels. Now you have "the sun level" and "the city level" and god I hope that feeling of fighting with other guardians nearby gets more and more use. That's the kind of inspired design that makes people say "Oh, I wish X Y and Z would change to be like that" - because the design gets our creative juices flowing.

I would much rather be theorizing about what lies below the waters of Titan than complaining that the tower crashes about every fifth time I load into it - but, as it feels to me - the breadcrumbs of mystery are too sparse and lacking in nourishment while the looming ghosts of obvious flaws cast too long a shadow to ignore. I hope, as time passes, that those things change for the better in all respects.

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I would much rather be theorizing about what lies below the waters of Titan than complaining that the tower crashes about every fifth time I load into it

The tower has 'crashed' (not exactly sure what you mean by that, but in my case, it means 'nothing is there but me') exactly once since Destiny 2 launched. I know it happens, i'm just amazed it happens so much for you!

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There was apparently at least one serious crashing issue on PS4.

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Hadn't even considered a PS4/Xbox difference. Makes sense!

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I would much rather be theorizing about what lies below the waters of Titan than complaining that the tower crashes about every fifth time I load into it

The tower has 'crashed' (not exactly sure what you mean by that, but in my case, it means 'nothing is there but me') exactly once since Destiny 2 launched. I know it happens, i'm just amazed it happens so much for you!

If I fly in solo, the odds that I get stuck on a black screen listening to tower chatter are about 1 in 20. If I fly in with a team of 6, it's about 1 in 1.3. I have one particular friend who almost always gets D/C'd from parties whenever he flies in, and I think something between his ISP, Bungie, and the rest of the world essentially breaks the game. In games where you get the black screen, the tower usually loads after 10-15 minutes if you wait, or you can log out and back in and it usually loads fine after that.

Then there's the crash to playstation blue screen problem, which seems related to flying into social spaces while in your player menus. Totally different issue. I've only had that once. This is a real crash and the D2 app needs to be relaunched.

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- No text -

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I get similar issues on the Xbox One. I think it's networking because the more crowded the Tower is when I arrive the more likely it is to kick in. I also get a lot of errors while staying in the Tower. (Fewer at the Farm, but I'm guessing that's because it's less populated.)

-- Steve loves almost all of Destiny 2, but this issue is making him kinda resent the opening title sequence.

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I would much rather be theorizing about what lies below the waters of Titan than complaining that the tower crashes about every fifth time I load into it

The tower has 'crashed' (not exactly sure what you mean by that, but in my case, it means 'nothing is there but me') exactly once since Destiny 2 launched. I know it happens, i'm just amazed it happens so much for you!

I'm on PS4 and it has only happened to me one time.

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Sorting by type is needed pretty badly. That's really the one that makes the most sense.

Who cares WHEN you acquired the gun? You care WHAT it is.

Sorting by time of acquisition is very useful, I think. Helps me know for certain that I'm deleting older versions of my weapons and gear. Also helped me avoid deleting my first Curtain Call (Has a great shader on it).

Wait… you don't get the shader back when you delete gear? I guess I learned something today. Maybe I was silly for assuming you would.

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Sorting by type is needed pretty badly. That's really the one that makes the most sense.

Who cares WHEN you acquired the gun? You care WHAT it is.

Sorting by time of acquisition is very useful, I think. Helps me know for certain that I'm deleting older versions of my weapons and gear. Also helped me avoid deleting my first Curtain Call (Has a great shader on it).

Wait… you don't get the shader back when you delete gear? I guess I learned something today. Maybe I was silly for assuming you would.

Yes, clearly. You can safely deduce that you won't get Mods back from weapons, either.

That's the thing about consumables: they are consumed.

inb4 someone nags about Shaders being consumables...

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Spaceships. Why can I not collect spaceships anymore? Looks like 27 will be the limit.

This is weird - because DIM DOES let you collect spaceships. (And sparrows.) They use the same 200-item group vault your weapons and armor uses. I just tested this.

Not at all sure why the Vault interface wouldn't allow this. :(

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Spaceships. Why can I not collect spaceships anymore? Looks like 27 will be the limit.

This is weird - because DIM DOES let you collect spaceships. (And sparrows.) They use the same 200-item group vault your weapons and armor uses. I just tested this.

Not at all sure why the Vault interface wouldn't allow this. :(

You know, I bet they do. I literally never tried to vault a ship because I assumed it would be just like emblems (and D1) and be its own tab/collection, etc.. That being said, not showing me all of the possible ships means I have to use a 3rd party / datamining website to see how many ships or sparrows I'm still missing. :(

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As well as transmat effects, mods, shaders...basically anything that is consumable or you get from Eververse (read might pay real money for to replace) with the exception of emotes.

Also, tokens, keys, etc.

And all of it counts towards the 200 space limit in your vault.

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It's a loot game with lousy organization. It's like having a shooter with lousy guns. I wonder if I have any further thoughts with this. If only I could type faster, then I might actually be able to contribute more to the conversation. Well I guess I can give this WIP alpha bit at least.

Bungie? Why do you have the “Destroyer of Worlds” Quest, or really any of those exotic quest steps, using up one of my slots? Bungie, I know you know how important screen real estate is. Well the same is true for my slots. What in the world are ya doin’?

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It's a loot game with lousy organization. It's like having a shooter with lousy guns. I wonder if I have any further thoughts with this. If only I could type faster, then I might actually be able to contribute more to the conversation. Well I guess I can give this WIP alpha bit at least.

Bungie? Why do you have the “Destroyer of Worlds” Quest, or really any of those exotic quest steps, using up one of my slots? Bungie, I know you know how important screen real estate is. Well the same is true for my slots. What in the world are ya doin’?

FYI that "what if it's not about power" post is great and I do really want to read what else you put into it.

There are many things I like about this game, and I really feel like D2, *especially* the final two story missions, delivers on the promise of D1. And yet they miss the mark on so many truly basic things. The vault is a disaster. Simple and obvious UI issues like only being able to see challenges during the activity, and not being able to see challenges if you have "you've got glimmer" displayed on your screen. Character power level is almost literally meaningless (beyond 260 light, all you have is prestige modes and that one power 300 quest from the raid power weapon quest item thingy.

Speaking of which, man - you are SO right. I didn't mind having a slot taken up by a weapon quest for something I knew I'd get in short order, but the raid quest just goes forever and ever and ever. Would it have been so hard to make it just a generic inventory item?

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Character power level is almost literally meaningless (beyond 260 light, all you have is prestige modes and that one power 300 quest from the raid power weapon quest item thingy.

As they say, not a bug. A feature.

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There are many things I like about this game, and I really feel like D2, *especially* the final two story missions, delivers on the promise of D1. And yet they miss the mark on so many truly basic things. The vault is a disaster.

I think the vault is better then what we had in D1, but as a result is worse. The ability to sort is also very telling, I think. Yes - I'm going to leave it there. I suck. :P

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The Vault is just terrible. (Destiny)