If you aim to go into Witch Queen fully blind (not just story), it probably goes with out saying that you should not watch this. In my observation though, nothing too revealing if you've been reading the TWABS. It's mostly just a hype piece (not that they all aren't that in some form), with a few winks into the future. The "Doc" part is very light, but hey, it's still cool to see what is so close at hand.

Things I noticed:

3:58 Is it just me, or does that fusion rifle have two firing modes? (It might just be how it was edited, but the first burst sure does feel slower then the second.)

4:59 - S16 = Season of the Risen

Note: Well folks, THERE THEY ARE! Behold! CURRENCY! Resonant Alloy / Neutral Element / Ruinous Element / Ascendant Alloy.

10:06 - It even sounds like Wardcliff!

10:28 - 50 WEAPONS! If even half are any good (and by all means they will be right?) ... AR EI PE my vault. It's going to be a hustle.

Ice Wall Exotic. Also this picture is so legit. Right? RIGHT! eh. ;D ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

NEW. Warlock Void Exotic. What if Empowering Rifts also healed you?

Looks like we all are getting an extra grenade from other void sub-classes. Warlocks don't have magnetic grenades right now, that's Titan exclusive pre-Witch Queen. Then again, based on chatter in trailer, it seems we are getting ALL(?) the void grenades? I guess then in that case overcharge wouldn't work from some of them?

12:15 - Burning & Healing with Solar? Will a solar hunter be able to heal then?

A warlock at the end of a finisher. Oh, and then *Poof* A cloaked Warlock?

Warlock Void Exotic. What if Empowering Rifts also healed you?

Oppressive Le Monarque meta, commence!

Looks like we all are getting an extra grenade from other void sub-classes. Warlocks don't have magnetic grenades right now, that's Titan exclusive pre-Witch Queen. Then again, based on chatter in trailer, it seems we are getting ALL(?) the void grenades? I guess then in that case overcharge wouldn't work from some of them?

Well, I found the answer to this soon enough. From Pcgamer;

It's official: Destiny 2's grenades are universal now. Recently Bungie gave us a showcase of some of The Witch Queen's upcoming features, including a look at the Void 3.0 rework that's launching alongside the expansion for Season 16. And the big news for Guardians chasing grenade kill bounties is that you'll be able to equip any Void grenade in the game. Want some Axion Bolts for your Hunter? Sure thing. Want to rock Suppressors on your Warlock? Go for it.

But the new Chaos Accelerant also works with one of the new (for Warlock) grenade types. With it equipped, overcharged Magnetic grenades will trigger a short-range Void blast. This sounds a lot like what used to be middle-tree Voidwalker's Handheld Supernova. And while it's not clear if the effect will be as powerful, by tying it to a specific, previously unavailable, grenade type it does sneakily nerf certain Exotic interactions like using Nothing Manacles to get two Scatter grenades that—under the old system—could be turned into Handheld Supernova charges.

I am VERY VERY sad about not being able to double Handheld Supernova. So much for THAT build. Not to run away with my imagination, but now I'm wondering what all the middle tree kit is going to look like when all is said and done. :/

The middle tree kit is so much fun, and it's sad that Bungie is so afraid of it. V_V

Hope Void 3.0 doesn’t suck to unlock and upgrade like Stasis did.

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Hope Void 3.0 doesn’t suck to unlock and upgrade like Stasis did.

This seems to be common sentiment. Apparently most of void 3.0 subclass (that your character has unlocked) will still be unlocked at release. So, in other words, my Warlock won't need to unlock Axion Bolt, but will need to unlock Voidwall (from Ikora).

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This all seems amazing.

Invisible Hunter had been my playstyle forever, so the new Aspects seem perfect. I’m also eager to try the new Warlock stuff. This seems like exactly the sort of differentiation between classes Destiny has really needed to lean into.

I can’t wait to see what they do with Solar and Arc.

This all seems amazing.

Invisible Hunter had been my playstyle forever, so the new Aspects seem perfect. I’m also eager to try the new Warlock stuff. This seems like exactly the sort of differentiation between classes Destiny has really needed to lean into.

I can’t wait to see what they do with Solar and Arc.

I'm REALLY going to be holding my breath when Bungie gets to arc. I'm not even going to say WHY, for once, as I've certainly mentioned my infinite enjoyment of the arc suite of hunter skills (dang it) enough in my time here. Not only because of the muscle memory, but because I've found it to be so flawlessly fun for all these years. If the mark is missed, even a little, I'll feel it and I'll be very disappointed. If I EVER get to test anything early (which I won't because I'm not a streamer PROVE ME WRONG!), I hope it would be at least for the arc changes. I don't even think I've properly described the ball of angst filled apprehension about... and I'm off on a tangent. Void. We're on Void.

Void.

Warlock wise I'm... kinda bummed on paper. Hunter kit seems really focused, and Titans mostly got all sorts of new kit to reinforce the line. It all looks really cool. Yet, for the warlocks, I was really hoping for something like what titans got (and have had) in Controlled Demolition. "Hitting a target with a Void ability or volatile detonation will make them volatile". Whats this? The (basically) mage class can't cast a mark of the void onto their foes, so to explode on death? WHAT BLASPHEMY IS THIS! And you gave this ability to the barbarian paladin?

I really think they are overselling "Mark of the Old Gods", in part because most of the warlock kit is so unchanged. Which isn't to say HEY COOL, but... well, now I guess I'll always be a well-lock somehow now huh. WE all have our playstyles, and I would far prefer not to stand still. I was hoping that I'd be able to do stuff much like with Attunement Of Fission (Middle Tree Voidwalker), but mixed with the other trees. Movement, fast and explosive, matched in turn by the considerable cool downs and equalized by buffs in those cool downs by energy drain mechanics. And it doesn't seem like I'll be able to pull that off yet to me. On that note, an observation here. We now have more options, and yet it all feels more restrictive in possible play-styles to me. Does that make sense?

Again, all on paper here, pudding is best proved in the eating and what not.

Oh and just... one more thing, Bungie WHERE (also) IS MY SPLIT NOVA BUNGIE! DID YOU THINK I WOULD FORGET!

According to Reddit, some Bungie devs did some sort of podcast, and used that venue to let the cat out of the bag on the things we are losing in the transition to Void 3.0. These include:

The buff from Weapons of Light (bubble) is now 25%, down from 35%.
No more "Heart of the Pack" for Void Hunters. It's still unclear to me whether smoke bombs can make you go invisible anymore, or if that's been moved to be solely through dodging.

I have that podcast in my queue for this afternoon. I’ll post some notes later tonight if there’s anything revelatory.

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They immediately dive into the Hunter stuff. Invisibility is no longer inherent to Smoke Grenades. You have to have Trapper’s Ambush equipped, but it wasn’t clear whether using that will still give smoke grenades invisibility when thrown normally or if you have to use the dive move to go invisible. I assume the former, but it’s not for sure.

I know I know, "Game Design Philosophy" implies far larger post then what you see here. And there probably is one, yet another snowball which could bellow into a mountain of words, but I'm going to TRY and make this brief instead.

First things first, instead of listening to the podcast, I read a transcript created be a redditor; "Summary/Transcription of DCP featuring Bungie with Kevin Yanes and Samuel Dunn". I found it to be a very... sparking read. I have ever so many words I want to say, and questions I want to ask but... it's all for not. I'm certainly not going to get an answer here, as by and large y'all don't know either. Maybe some the lurkers of DBO do, but... key word lurkers. They don't post, so it's moot.

Thus the end result has been that for the last few days I've been having something rattle around in this noggin of mine, and I've been unsure how best to approach it. Something doesn't make sense. It's clear that there is a design philosophy at work here, but it feels... mismatched with... I don't know. And it's been BOTHERING me. A mental splinter.

A few days ago in this whole of conversation, I asked...

"We now have more options, and yet it all feels more restrictive in possible play-styles to me. Does that make sense?"

It was largely a rhetorical question, but now I'm not so sure. This is where y'all come in. I think I don't have enough information, as my own incites and takes don't feel "enough" and so I'm asking for y'alls take. Right now, in our coming towards last week of Void 2.0, what does each tree feel like to you? Does each tree feel like it has it's own style of play? Or does all feel like it's some cohesive main idea? Or shoot, both or none at all? How have you not lost interest in the aspects of the Void 2.0 subclass? How has this rigid style of power kept its fun for you?

It's important I ask this now, as once 3.0 is out, it's done and done. It may all be that this is just my brain making a fuss because "change" or whatever, but... I don't think so. I would like to be able to come back to the "notes" of this thread, even if your take is just a simple take of what you've thought of the Void sub-classes so far.

Thank you.

I don’t have a great answer for you, other than that the subclasses don’t feel very distinct to me. Top tree Nightstalker might as well be bottom tree for how it feels moment to moment. I know there are differences, but they don’t seem to matter other than just being a slightly different flavor. Are you building around dodge uptime for invisibility or melee uptime?

That’s in massive contrast to Stasis, where piecing together different aspects and fragments make some pretty diverse builds. Maybe it’s not actually more diverse, but it just feels like it because I pay more attention due to actually having to make those choices versus just picking one complete prebuilt kit with the other subclasses.

I like the differentiation they’re leaning into—the specializations of each class. Hunters get in invisibility, Titans get overshields, Warlocks get Devour, etc. I want class to feel like a meaningful choice, and not just a slightly different flavor. I kind of wish they were going even more extreme in that regard, honestly.

I don’t have a great answer for you, other than that the subclasses don’t feel very distinct to me. Top tree Nightstalker might as well be bottom tree for how it feels moment to moment. I know there are differences, but they don’t seem to matter other than just being a slightly different flavor. Are you building around dodge uptime for invisibility or melee uptime?

That’s in massive contrast to Stasis, where piecing together different aspects and fragments make some pretty diverse builds. Maybe it’s not actually more diverse, but it just feels like it because I pay more attention due to actually having to make those choices versus just picking one complete prebuilt kit with the other subclasses.

I like the differentiation they’re leaning into—the specializations of each class. Hunters get in invisibility, Titans get overshields, Warlocks get Devour, etc. I want class to feel like a meaningful choice, and not just a slightly different flavor. I kind of wish they were going even more extreme in that regard, honestly.

Why is it when I make a post, I can almost always expect a response from cheapLEY?
That's not me hate'n on ya, by the way. Just, I was hoping for a slightly larger response. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Actually my intention was far more granular then that, and, on paper, to me their "differentiation" seems a backward step hence;

We now have more options, and yet it all feels more restrictive in possible play-styles to me.

Tangent. What do you want to be when you grow up? Classic question. Probably a good chance all of us had it asked to us at some point in our youth. But, there is a problem with this question, I've observed. Whatever response a child may give, it's often only about the end result. It is rarely, if ever, about the work to get there. Or the process involved in the professions day to days work. And if you don't enjoy the process, it could render the joy from the seeked end result moot. Results may very. Batteries not included.

Returning to Destiny, how do we have our fun? And how do we keep it that way? Well, it's with variety, which over the years has been built multiplicatively into Destiny. Warlocks! My main with Void 2.0 has set ideas, top tree (Attunement Of Chaos) is Power. Powerful grenades, Melees which also build that grenade energy back (Entropic Pull), Bloom which makes void abilities also explode, and then the Super. A big, fat, homing "slow-va" bomb with it's very own "wolf pack rounds" to match after it blows up.

Middle Tree is about a Warlocks favorite four-dimensional manifold, SpaceTime. Dark Matter makes it so that any void ability use not only gives back all ability energy, but heath too! That's important, as while top tree is about brute force, middle tree is about creating momentum, or at least changing it. That tide of battle. Middle Tree melee, Atomic Breach, it not only puts on a delayed explosion (though not like titans can), but also drastically pushes whoever dared to get close BACK. Again, momentum, creating that space, giving you time to make your next move. Play on words, but... that's what it does. It works! Handheld Supernova, whatever it's form, needs no introduction. And the Super "Nova Warp" needs no introduction either.

Then there is Bottom Tree. The "energy absorption" tree. When I say "Heart of The Pack", any Destiny Vet knows that means Hunter. Weapons of light? Titan. It is known. Devour? Warlock. Which, by the way, triggered with melee (or super). Or, eat a grenade. Everything about bottom tree is about surviving your own death through the death of other things. And while that's not going away... reading all of this...

...*waving arms* this whole thread and its linked content...

...it seems like this forced approach of "what a void warlock is", or any class for that matter, may have muddied things. Are warlocks just going to be the rift guys? I'll only have one melee style now, cool as it may be. Can I still push folks back? Is there going to be a fragment for that? I'm losing abilities I don't know If I'm going to get back. We all are.

Having said all that, I'm getting the impression that it may be something else about the 3.0 sandbox which has been slowly taking shape as bothering me, but I still don't know what it is. My brain, Oy vey!

DANG IT WITCHQUEEN HURRY UP, I'M GOIN' MAD OVER HERE! ._.

It was largely a rhetorical question, but now I'm not so sure. This is where y'all come in. I think I don't have enough information, as my own incites and takes don't feel "enough" and so I'm asking for y'alls take. Right now, in our coming towards last week of Void 2.0, what does each tree feel like to you? Does each tree feel like it has it's own style of play? Or does all feel like it's some cohesive main idea? Or shoot, both or none at all? How have you not lost interest in the aspects of the Void 2.0 subclass? How has this rigid style of power kept its fun for you?

All I really care about for each tree is whether A) I like it and it feels good to use and B) when I use it, is it good relative to everything else?

I ended up playing the crap out of bottom tree Nightstalker because I got sick of Golden Gun being terrible in PvP (everyone just runs away), and so I figured "hey, bottom tree Nightstalker has multiple shots, maybe I can make that work as an ad hoc golden gun". Then I realized how good all the rest of the kit is (smoke bombs and voidwalls), combined it with Gemini Jesters, and once I had practiced using the super enough to actually get kills with it, the rest is history.

Top tree used to be great in PvE when Orpheus Rigs was good and there weren't 100 other ways to debuff enemies. Now I see no reason to use it. Middle tree is seemingly useless in PvE, and I don't like the super in PvP. All the really hard PvE stuff I almost never play my Hunter for.