T Minus three weeks.

I'm definitely not getting it at launch, BUT

If,

1. They pulled off a miracle and made the game actually fun with lots of surprises
2. The story isn't bullshit
3. There are people here whom I could play with

… I MIGHT be tempted. That's a big if though.

If you're picking it up, post in this thread.

T Minus three weeks.

I'm definitely not getting it at launch, but if...

1. They pulled off a miracle and made the game actually fun with lots of surprises
2. The story isn't bullshit
3. There are people here whom I could play with

… I MIGHT be tempted. That's a big if though.

If you're picking it up, post in this thread.

I've been playing a healthy amount of Arc Raiders, which is utterly fantastic, but is definitely a (PvE)vP experience. I initially dismissed Marathon, but I've realized I've secretly been itching for what I believe could be a (PvP)vE experience, too. So, I'll definitely be checking out the server slam; what remains to be seen are a few key sticking points -- duos playlist availability (essential), how they handle the end-game (forced wipe vs. optional wipe), and how much a lost run affects player economy.

The story will be great, but I suspect it be told through starting round voice-over and trader dialogue lines, unfortunately -- seems to be pretty par for the course with extraction games thus far. I would be giddy to be proven wrong, and have story quests that aren't just item fetches. There's potential with Bungie's pedigree for Destiny raids...

I have a friend who seems pretty gung-ho on checking it out, so I'll probably be playing. If you're ever tempted to play, I look forward to bathing in your loot.

If you're ever tempted to play, I look forward to bathing in your loot.

Joke's on you. All my loot was trash!

I'm interested in the Server Slam event but am going into it with a feeling of "ok Marathon...this is your last chance to win me over." The first playtest I was in was fun, the second was very frustrating and I deleted it within a day.

Arc Raiders has been a blast. As mentioned above, it's become a mostly PvE game with the ever looming threat of a player taking you out. And when it's a game that involves successfully extracting with your loot to progress your game, I better have more successful exfils than not...or else I won't be playing for long. I fear that Marathon is just going to be a constant rotation of getting beat down and never successfully extracting. I don't have the time anymore to play games with enough frequency to git gud at them. A chill experience with some occasional excitement is my speed these days, and Marathon seems to be full throttle the whole time.

Joke's on you. All my loot was trash!

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Some of the promotional stuff broke me. The voice cast--although with my skills I might never see much of the story content. Unlike most here, I didn't grow up playing video games--there weren't that many to play. Marathon was the first game I really went nuts over, and I was a grown-ass man by then. Bungie has always been good at pushing my buttons, and they found some old ones to push.

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I plan to be, yes.

I'm off on the 26th and the 28th, so those are the most likely days, but probably whenever I can.

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You mean me, right?

I plan to be, yes.

I'm off on the 26th and the 28th, so those are the most likely days, but probably whenever I can.

https://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?mode=fireteambuilder&event=3712

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It’s still lame, and I’m convinced the turn in online discourse around the game is pure astroturfing. Only minor gripes were addressed, and the UI is sadly terrible. Will not buy after the free weekend.

I actually had fun. It feels good to play, the combat is fun, both PvE and PvP. The UI is absolutely awful though.

Ultimately it’s a miss for me, but that’s just because I don’t want to play an extraction shooter. The core loop just doesn’t work for me. I love a lot about the game, I just wish it was a different type of game.

I actually had fun. It feels good to play, the combat is fun, both PvE and PvP. The UI is absolutely awful though.

Ultimately it’s a miss for me, but that’s just because I don’t want to play an extraction shooter. The core loop just doesn’t work for me. I love a lot about the game, I just wish it was a different type of game.

Why does it have to be so confusing? Is there no in-game settings menu? How do I adjust my controller sensitivity? The movement feels so different from Destiny and Halo...it feels like it's very much a game developed for PC then ported to console. It feels like "them Bethesda controls", where strafing is more accurate than aiming.

And I've only done the tutorial mission.

Huh. I thought it felt good. I don’t even know where the settings are. Good like finding them in that mess of a UI.

I actually had fun. It feels good to play, the combat is fun, both PvE and PvP. The UI is absolutely awful though.

Ultimately it’s a miss for me, but that’s just because I don’t want to play an extraction shooter. The core loop just doesn’t work for me. I love a lot about the game, I just wish it was a different type of game.

Why does it have to be so confusing? Is there no in-game settings menu? How do I adjust my controller sensitivity? The movement feels so different from Destiny and Halo...it feels like it's very much a game developed for PC then ported to console. It feels like "them Bethesda controls", where strafing is more accurate than aiming.

The gear in the bottom right corner. You can adjust a lot, from the stick layout, to the sensitivity and dead zones.

Two kills in a row, entirely through the positional sound. Play this game with headphones.

Two kills in a row, entirely through the positional sound. Play this game with headphones.

How to locate other players with sound:

-Listen for their footsteps. Your regular walk sound is pretty loud actually, and you can be heard up or down a floor. Running can be heard from pretty far away. You are silent when crouching.
-Follow the sound of shooting.
-Opening doors makes a sound, so you can deduce where people are and follow them.
-Looting itself makes a sound. I found and killed someone around a corner because I could hear the items being moved around.
-Alarms let you know other players called in stuff like supply drops. They'll probably be around to try to collect the items.
-Your prox chat can be heard. You'll see a name with the player speaking. They are nearby.

Play with headphones or correctly configured surround. All the sounds are positional, and to some extent even in the vertical direction.

I'm not really sure? I've played for quite a while and almost all of it has been learnign what the game is. It's my first extraction shooter, but also there's just a lot to learn.

Executive summary of what I know so far: Guns feel really good. The visuals and dark scifi is really up my alley personally. Playing as a crew of two is a big mistake. Everything else would be a long ramble.

SO, here's a long ramble:

Its hard to get the character from Thursday night day one of a network stress test release as all of that is bound to influence the population that shows up, but so far it is absolutely not going to be the Kumbaya fest of arc raiders. Simply not having aggression-based matchmaking will cause that. But also Marathon broke the prox chat in the test yesterday so that also made things only ever go in one direction.

Last night things felt…steadier. Hard to know if I changed, the game changed, or the players changed. I had more fun with it.

The learning curve is steep. Items do look too similar, but I think the UI is fine once you build muscle memory of what the buttons do. Reminds me of Apex in that way. The ttk feels similar too, actually.
Most of the learning I have had to do is about what the factions represent and what they will sell or barter (one group more about healing and armor, another for weapon mods, one for explosive, etc.) that’s where the long-term power enhancement comes from. All gear is just held temporarily as it floats by in the river of time.

Late Thursday night I switched to solo queue and had a MUCH easier time of things. I basically had the rook experience without being a rook. Using a low level kit to get some kills lost to the limit and exfil out. but I’m not sure if that was down to people going to sleep.

The other thing experience has given me is more awareness of world events. How to trigger them, where they happen, and the kind of gear that results.

I’m many hours in, level 14, (also played some in a pre-beta test) and I still feel like I’m only just starting to understand how the game works. Combined with the real detriment of using crew filling with match made people, and (rumors?) of no skill/experiance matchmaking algorithms I have to wonder if enough people- or what kind of people - will stick it out through the tough beginning to get to the good parts. And there are a lot of signs that it has a lot of good parts.

Last night I played with a friend who was literally just starting, and I was basically telling him things about the game the entire time. I guess that's a better experience than how I learned it all? Faster, and less confusing certainly. Playing with a crew of two is still the hardest way to play, but it was not the meat grinder Cody and I had Thursday.

The other issue is if people at large even really want an extraction shooter. Arc raiders got a bit of popularity from trying to be more accessible and so they chased that so hard it’s not really giving people the extraction shooter experience. The earlier ones never really took off. You “win” about as much as in Apex/fortnite, but it feels more frustrating to lose when it actually hurts you by losing your stuff. Bungie has already said people are doing contracts and leaving faster than expected, which is making the more risk tolerant and the pvp focused people feel like the runs are empty.

I still have seen zero people choose non-aggression, let alone cooperation.

OTOH, it is compelling to actually care if you win and I came out of both days with unique stories of what happened because of things not being essentially the same every run.

And it does feel like maybe the best gunfeel and most team/class based shooter Bungie has ever done which is saying a lot.

The visual style and sci-fi dystopia writing is right up my alley, but is another thing making me wonder how many people even want this.

Anyway, I put my pre-order in.

Its hard to get the character from Thursday night day one of a network stress test release as all of that is bound to influence the population that shows up, but so far it is absolutely not going to be the Kumbaya fest of arc raiders. Simply not having aggression-based matchmaking will cause that. But also Marathon broke the prox chat in the test yesterday so that also made things only ever go in one direction.

There has been ZERO chill. Everything is shoot on sight.

Rook seems underbaked. You go in against teams of three, but they have zero incentive to just let you be. You're probably loaded with stuff since you've been scavenging, and you're easy pickings since you're solo. It seems like the best bet is to get out via guarded exfils, and utilize your hacking / cloaking to make the bots ignore you while you are waiting for the countdown. Nobody seems to use the guarded exfils.

Late Thursday night I switched to solo queue and had a MUCH easier time of things. I basically had the rook experience without being a rook. Using a low level kit to get some kills lost to the limit and exfil out. but I’m not sure if that was down to people going to sleep.

Solo is much easier. You only have to worry about yourself, and you can just stay quiet to mind your own business, or to get the drop on other people. Groups of three moving quietly seems super rare.

The other issue is if people at large even really want an extraction shooter. Arc raiders got a bit of popularity from trying to be more accessible and so they chased that so hard it’s not really giving people the extraction shooter experience. The earlier ones never really took off. You “win” about as much as in Apex/fortnite, but it feels more frustrating to lose when it actually hurts you by losing your stuff. Bungie has already said people are doing contracts and leaving faster than expected, which is making the more risk tolerant and the pvp focused people feel like the runs are empty.

It's been two things:

1. People are going in with free sponsored kits to knock out the contracts, then just leaving when complete since it doesn't matter if you lose it.
2. People are dying to bots before you find other players.

I feel like it's a weird choice to make so many of the contracts not require exfiltration, but I kind of get it because if all of them did, then most people would never ever progress. But it creates this weird situation from point 1.

I still have seen zero people choose non-aggression, let alone cooperation.

Yup. Zero chill at all. Either shoot it, or run away from it. I'm totally guilty.

And it does feel like maybe the best gunfeel and most team/class based shooter Bungie has ever done which is saying a lot.

Tuning the sensitivity and deadzones made it feel pretty spot on for me.

The visual style and sci-fi dystopia writing is right up my alley, but is another thing making me wonder how many people even want this.

No OLEDs on Tau Ceti. I backed the right tech after all.

Was able to run through some intro stuff yesterday and this morning.

The tutorial seemed kind of hard, I failed once, glitched it once, then got lost on the 3rd attempt and eventually did exfil. It was very unclear exactly what I needed to do to make the exfil happen.

Today I started figuring it out a bit more. I ran two normal missions, but got murdered in both. The third mission, I actually got a bunch of kills, but one teammate ran away and exfiled, the 2nd one got downed by UESC, but I couldn't save him because I ran out of ammo (even though it seemed like I had some in my backpack, I couldn't figure out how to use it). Then I did what I was supposed to do for my contract, then tried to exfil. I started it and stood there waiting for a timer, but then I got attacked by a UESC bot. Since I didn't have ammo, I just sort of dodged behind the pylon for a while and then also used my shield. Finally a timer popped up for 10 seconds, and I figured I was going to be able to escape. Nope! Some other bot flew in at literally 0s on the timer and booped me off the platform, I missed the exfil, then it dropped down and murdered me at it's leisure.

So that was a little frustrating, but I am excited to play again and hopefully figure some more things out. I assume it will be more fun with a team of DBOers

So that was a little frustrating, but I am excited to play again and hopefully figure some more things out. I assume it will be more fun with a team of DBOers

The biggest thing is to take bots as seriously as you would other players. The ones with capes are no joke. The commanders are no joke. They aren't Destiny ads.

I've played a bit of the server slam and while I think the game is decent, I doubt I'll play it much. If I do buy it, it'll primarily be a show of support and pity for Bungie. I picked up Helldivers 2 a couple of weeks ago and have had SO much fun playing that game. I would not, by comparison, call my time with Marathon fun. I just don't really jive with extraction shooters. I don't WANT to PvP. Alas.

You could remove the PvP element entirely and make it PvE only and it'd still be hard as shit to extract solo.

Arc Raiders taught me that. Playing an extraction shooter without headphones is kind of dumb.

I really like it. I wish I were a better PVP player. It’s fun with friends. Raga taught me the other night just how careful you have to be. I think that’s something that a lot of people don’t realize. Running is dangerous. I don’t think people realize it’s a stealth game, even with three players.

Love the art, love the gun play, love the world building. Seems like it has a lot of potential in terms of experimentation. There’s a lot of potential for synergy that I think INSANEdrive would dig.

I think a lot of the criticism is unfair. I disagree about the IU. It’s beginning to make some sense. This game has a learning curve. There’s no doubt about that.

I thought this guy made some good points.

https://youtu.be/q9QBgaDf0Zg?si=egZTEWf5NeCdz5QN

See you starside.

I haven't played much as a team during the test and wouldn't mind getting a feel for it.

Duos and Trios is where the game shines; the runner abilities begin to synergize and playstyles emerge. Playing Medic & Recon vs. Double-Assassin has been really fun in two totally unique ways.

Duos and Trios is where the game shines; the runner abilities begin to synergize and playstyles emerge. Playing Medic & Recon vs. Double-Assassin has been really fun in two totally unique ways.

I don't know why if you go in as a double the game doesn't match you against doubles.

Bungie took heavy inspiration from Escape from Tarkov, which doesn't have any direct team-count matchmaking either, so the design choice may have just been carry-over. There is some intrigue and tension in not knowing how many players you're facing in a squad... but I think I prefer direct solos-duos-trios playlists.

Solo is much easier. You only have to worry about yourself, and you can just stay quiet to mind your own business, or to get the drop on other people. Groups of three moving quietly seems super rare.

If you go solo, it will not populate any group crews. Solos only. It kinda feels like a better way to Rook? Hard for me to say. Every time except one when I tried to use rook I got an Anteater error immediately.

Not explained, but the way it works is you start an Exfil tower, which takes about 45sec or so I would say. after that, a closing ring will appear around it. Once the first runner steps in it, it starts a 10 second countdown. You want to be in the ring when it hits 0, but it does not matter where you are before that (unless you need to be the one to start it.). It's probably smarter most of the time not to be around it till you are about to go.

They don't have the population for it. Arc Raiders didn't have it at launch either. Once you commit to it, then it's something you might need to take away, and they are already splitting off solos into a separate hopper, so it's better to make sure you can afford to split the players into 3 buckets for matchmaking before you to it.

Solo is much easier. You only have to worry about yourself, and you can just stay quiet to mind your own business, or to get the drop on other people. Groups of three moving quietly seems super rare.

If you go solo, it will not populate any group crews. Solos only. It kinda feels like a better way to Rook? Hard for me to say. Every time except one when I tried to use rook I got an Anteater error immediately.

I think I ran about four or five rook rounds. One with success. I don't know what's worse, getting killed soon or late. Soon is certainly better in terms of gear/time lost, but it's frustrating. The one good run was exhilarating.

If you go solo, it will not populate any group crews. Solos only. It kinda feels like a better way to Rook? Hard for me to say. Every time except one when I tried to use rook I got an Anteater error immediately.

I think Rook is the better way to Rook after figuring it out.

You spawn in with a backpack and a shield. You don't have to worry about losing anything. The self healing and UESC hacking is very good. You can easily get some of the ? events like guarded containers by hacking them, hiding until you can open them, then using your ability to make the UESC ignore you, and loot it without fighting. Most players don't seem to be doing these events since they are hard, so you can get all the loot. It's often very good, with purples that sell for a lot or are useful.

Then use a guarded exfil and pull the same trick with the UESC hack ability. Again, players don't seem to use these that much so it's a free escape.

I went from broke to $20k in just 2 runs as Rook.

1. They pulled off a miracle and made the game actually fun with lots of surprises

Played a bit yesterday, and while the gunplay itself feels nice, that's about the only positive thing I could say about the game It feels like a tutorial on what an Extraction Shooter is rather than a well-conceived entry to challenge or stand strong in the genre. There are three things an extraction shooter needs to be great: Audio as a major focus, gameplay balance and options, and the ability to use the environment.

Point 1-
Audio: Games like Hunt Showdown or Arc Raiders are defined by how great their audio is as a key tool. Hear a flock of birds get spooked to the west? now you know where the closest enemy movement is coming from. Hear footsteps on mud turn into footsteps on metal? Someone just got into a nearby building and will probably be distracted by lootable containers.

Marathon kind of has none of this. Sure, there is directional audio, but none of it really seems to tell you a story about your environment. Locations in this game all seem like big winding tubes that are all placed on foundations made with the same material as the insides of every room (see: Point 3). It's a bit more like Apex where you can hear enemy footsteps that signal an impending firefight more than anything else. In that sense, there's nothing your team can really do with audio other than say "here we go", whereas even in DMZ/Warzone, we used the directional audio in conjunction with the proximity chat to lure, mislead, and track enemies, leading to some hilarious encounters and negotiations. (In Warzone, Fooch and I once had a surviving enemy running around inside a building as Fooch watched from the rooftop, and I was calling out the enemy's position ("I can see you just ran up the stairs to the second floor!") just based on his audio, and he was freaking out thinking I could see him.
Also, given how short TTK is in this game, you can't really do much in the way of being a Third Party, so the sound of distant firefights isn't so much an encouragement to get your team moving that way, since the fight will be over very quickly, and long before you get there, enemy teams will already be done with a fight and scouting the open fields for any team pushing that way (had a teammate rushing ahead of us towards the sound of a fight, only to see him teamshot from rooftops as we approached cover from an opening. Was the enemy down to their final HP points? Irrelevant, they had their sights trained on the horizon already, which leads to point 2:

Gameplay Balance and Options:

In games like Arc Raiders and DMZ, there is always a moment when you and another player meet. Do you shoot? Do you communicate? Do you pass each other peacefully? Do you help? Do you offer trades? What do you do? And if you hesitate to shoot, what will it cost you? How safe do you feel throughout?
This is one of the most exclusive elements of Extraction Shooters: When extraction is your goal, everything else is a choice. Every single decision has a consequence. I had a moment in Arc Raiders where I followed the sounds of a solo player fighting for his life against multiple Wasps. I positioned myself upstairs in a nearby building as the fight moved in my direction. He eventually holed up in a hut below me. I had a clear shot on every Wasp... but after looking at how small his hut was, I thought to myself 'wouldn't it be funnier if I spammed grenades into his refuge?'. Deciding that yes, yes it would, I proceeded to drain him of his healing supplies, before he made a break for it as the Wasps lit him up. Unfortunately, as his flare ascended to meet me at eye level, the Wasps turned their eyes to follow it up to me. As my back was riddled with bullets I wondered: What if I had helped him instead? The enemy all trained on him, it would have been easy. Would he have been grateful? Would he have considered me his next threat? Would we have been able to extract together and forge a real friendship? We'll never know, because of a single decision.

And a big factor for these decisions in Arc Raiders lies in your resources. Enemies don't have to be numerous, because every one of them is an investment. They take up lots of your precious ammo, engaging with them gives you away, and if your team isn't coordinated, they bring more and more pain down on your head. Same as with players, you have to think before you act. Position yourself before you are seen, communicate with your team about enemy numbers, movement, and where you last heard other players engaging. If you get into a fight, healing is slow. Missing your shots costs way more when you only have 20 rounds to your name, but 20 shots is all you technically need to wipe an entire enemy team. So when you run into another team, how confident are you with those 20 shots? How confident are they?

In Marathon, you run into players so rarely that an encounter inevitably devolves into gunfire. Tell me you have ever had a moment where you see a cloaked player scurrying around and you don't immediately open fire on him. He's a rare threat, and a threat at all times. Balance-wise, any hesitation to fire is almost guaranteed to get you killed, because guns are super accurate (even the slow-traveling bolts seem to have some lock-on). Because of this, there is zero incentive to separate from your teammates, and zero incentive to hesitate if you can get the first shots off.
In DMZ, we had a scenario where Fooch was gunned down as we pushed across a street. His killer turned a corner and met my shotgun against his nose. TTK was short, but now we had an encounter on our hands. Hearing his teammates running to get high ground in the building across the street, Sammy and I quickly took low cover. And what followed was... We talked. They claimed to be working on their shotgunned partner's quest, which required him extracting alive. Knowing they had better positioning, one of them came out of cover slowly as a sign of goodwill. We agreed to let them revive their teammate if they let us revive Fooch first. They agreed. Tensions were high, but everyone was soon standing and both teams were face to face. They asked if we wanted to team up to knock out our own quests. We agreed, and one of them called in an APC. What followed was some of the most fun we had in DMZ, rolling up on enemy bases as a heavily armored platoon, knocking out quest after quest, before extracting together and going our separate ways.
In Arc Raiders, you see clips of people even setting up shops in matches, because people are often relieved to find a moment of respite and comradery in an environment where the AI enemies are a bad enough threat as it is.

I just don't see this happening in Marathon. The game is too... aggressive. Had a teammate downstairs from myself and our Third, and when he got gunned down in under a second, he immediately triggered his bleedout. my teammate clocked the enemy approach, but got gunned down shortly after as I repositioned to get a solid angle against the entrances. The entire enemy team rushed in, and I dropped them one after the other. The last guy even held out his hands, though I don't know if that's a gesture, or if he was trying to pop his Ult. Didn't help him anyway, but that's the thing. There was no warning, my low teammate had no chance, and everything happened so fast (about fifteen seconds total), that "FIGHT" was the only option. Even after it ended, Sammy was still like "That was an enemy team?". And every encounter against other players follow this same level of aggression. If you see a vulnerable player (especially Rooks), there's zero reason not to gun them down and get the advantage, because if you hesitate, you lose. No leverage, nobody wants to use proximity chat to create encounters, and no resource consideration.

FIGHT.

Point 3-
The Ability To Use The Environment:

Tying those first two points together, Environment is everything. Positioning is everything. Every angle of a fight can be used as leverage, and can determine the outcome of the fight.
In these games, you listen to the environment, then you position yourself according to your resources. There is no one-size-fits-all.
At the same time, once things go bad, failure to use your environment, or be aware of it can lead to easily preventable outcomes... Or hilarious moments.
Fooch and I were playing Arc Raiders during their own Beta, and we had a moment where an enemy team had already called in the extraction, but they repositioned to a nearby building to wait it out. We pushed on them and had them at a disadvantage, but in the final moments, they threw a smoke grenade, and booked it to the Elevator as we fired blindly. Having made it safely, they all exposed themselves and unloaded at us just as it was going to shut, knocking me and Fooch. A final humiliation. Had they stayed inside the Elevator the whole time, we would have had them. If they hadn't brought a smoke grenade, we would have had them. If we had approached from a different angle to put ourselves between them and the elevator? Yup. But they used their resources and environment to their advantage, and what followed after they left? Well:

So far in Marathon, buildings are just, as I said, winding tubes with the same floors. If your teammate is in a fight, you don't really have time to reposition because you have to trek to three other rooms before you find a window or door leading out, and firefights are over by then. And the extraction is just out in the open, so you can't really plan around it other than making sure the area is clear, then spamming your abilities and hoping the AI or other players don't pop you from a distance. And maybe it's just me, but the way the Stamina meter works makes momentum-based clambering and platforming feel really bad.

2. The story isn't bullshit

I've always said, Lore Isn't Story.
Lore can supplement story and enrich the world, but it can not replace a narrative. Marathon has shot itself in the foot by tying its lore to the existing Marathon universe, then being set way after it, so you can only really look into the past. Even Apex Legends, which takes place decades after Titanfall, follows a narrative. Characters have evolving dialogue and relationships. They have ups and downs, the game world is affected by the ongoing story, and the world feels alive and ongoing.
Where do you see Marathon's story going when everything is disembodied voices and audiologs?

3. There are people here whom I could play with

I don't see too many people getting pulled into the inherent high-stress and low-gameplay elements of Extraction shooters for long. We're all old folks around here now. The free Server slam peaked at 75k on Steamcharts. About 30% of Arc Raders' peak just today. I just don't see it as something Bungie will be investing in long-term given all of the baggage it has, and how far it still has to go. Everything feels like an Alpha still, and we're already on the cusp of launch day.

If you're picking it up, post in this thread.

It's just not what I wanted next from Bungie, and it doesn't feel like they've learned anything from what has made extraction shooters popular in the past decade. It definitely feels like something designed to train people on the idea of an extraction shooter before they look for a better one, but they're charging money for this. In that regard, DMZ is leagues above it in that regard, and is way more fun in the moment-to-moment gameplay.

I hope it finds it audience, but man. This is why Destiny just got all-but-dropped since Beyond Light? If it's not a smash hit, will Sony kill it and Bungie as a studio before it has time to develop and grow?

I dunno, but I'm good without jumping in.

I feel like Marathon is a game that is less than the sum of its parts.

I've seen a lot of discourse regarding the unwillingness of players to learn a new game. I can see both sides to this. You absolutely are going to be lost. Confused. You will get your ass kicked for a while. You won't know what to do or how to do it. But, you'll figure it out. How to play and approach things. How to loot the things you need. At least for me, there was a joy in unraveling the game. It does take some time.

But I see the other side of it too. The tutorial is still absolutely terrible. Most games will let you figure things out in a level or area where the stakes are low. But not Marathon. You are jumping right in. I think it creates a bad first impression and will probably have a lot of players be sour on the game and not give it a chance.

You really do have to play so dramatically differently than other FPS games. People are complaining about running out of ammo. Well, the whole point of the game is that you only have what you take in with you. Either take in more ammo, or save it and don't waste it all on the bots. I didn't get the healing item concerns either, as I usually had a steady supply of depleted ones scavenged from the level, or real ones looted from med containers or other players. To be fair, 'depleted' literally means something that has been used up. I skipped them at first because I thought they were empty. They could have been named better.

The issue I have with the game is that the mechanics don't really support an engaging experience for me. The level of creativity in the activities from the closed alpha has actually decreased. Some contracts used to require you to go to a terminal, then find another on with the corresponding number to extract the data. There is none of that now. It's mostly one and done.

The high value targets used to surround themselves with a dome of energy, requiring you to consume mechanic's kits in order to fight inside without being damaged. Now, they are simply in the level with a purple shield.

The way the story is presented just doesn't do it for me. NuCaloric tells you to access data to find out what happened to the colony. Yet to do it, you go to the same areas of the same map that you've seen a zillion times. In the original Marathon, if Durandal wanted you to gather data, you'd go to a unique level built specifically for that purpose in the story. When you return, you just get a wall of text read to you by your faction liaison. Dude, this is so lame. I don't doubt they put a lot of effort into the story, but this is NOT the way to make me feel like I'm living and doing it.

The UI is horrendous. Want to redeem a contract? Good luck. Want to browse the armory? I didn't realize you could switch between factions on the armory screen until the final day. This is one point where the internet is NOT being overly critical. It's just awful.

Mechanically, everything feels great. But there's only so much of this shoot, loot, extract loop that I can take. It gets old fast. And with the story being presented in a way that is NOT going to satisfy you, doing the priority contracts to see it won't motivate you.

My prediction is that the game will have a modest launch, and retain a smaller dedicated group of players. I think most people probably will have tried the server slam and said it's not for them, or else give up shortly after launch. Among the remaining players, the lowest skilled ones will get trounced, and they'll bounce. Then that will repeat, until only a small group of hardcore players are left. New players won't come in, since the onboarding is really really bad, and you'll be facing other players with more accumulated knowledge and skill.

Sad to see a Bungie game not going on my shelf, but I'll definitely watch the Marathon map on youtube, and read all the lore on the story page once added.

P.S. Schooly D, are you gonna play? This game is HARDCORE!!!

The Guarded exfils are no joke. I tried to use one as a solo and…woof.

AS I said I only got to play rook once, but the UESC ID shield thing id not last nearly as long as I expected it would from the description. But it sounds like the rook worked as intended for you.

Well, minus the possible teaming up that I think happens approximately never.

In Marathon, you run into players so rarely that an encounter inevitably devolves into gunfire.

My one and only friendly interaction ironically involved gunfire.

Someone downed me near an exfil point. He then told me to crawl to it, and he'd let me exfil. He only downed me so he knew he'd be safe, but he didn't want to jank me.

Point 1-
Audio: Games like Hunt Showdown or Arc Raiders are defined by how great their audio is as a key tool. Hear a flock of birds get spooked to the west? now you know where the closest enemy movement is coming from. Hear footsteps on mud turn into footsteps on metal? Someone just got into a nearby building and will probably be distracted by lootable containers.

Marathon kind of has none of this. Sure, there is directional audio, but none of it really seems to tell you a story about your environment. Locations in this game all seem like big winding tubes that are all placed on foundations made with the same material as the insides of every room (see: Point 3). It's a bit more like Apex where you can hear enemy footsteps that signal an impending firefight more than anything else. In that sense, there's nothing your team can really do with audio other than say "here we go", whereas even in DMZ/Warzone, we used the directional audio in conjunction with the proximity chat to lure, mislead, and track enemies, leading to some hilarious encounters and negotiations. (In Warzone, Fooch and I once had a surviving enemy running around inside a building as Fooch watched from the rooftop, and I was calling out the enemy's position ("I can see you just ran up the stairs to the second floor!") just based on his audio, and he was freaking out thinking I could see him.
Also, given how short TTK is in this game, you can't really do much in the way of being a Third Party, so the sound of distant firefights isn't so much an encouragement to get your team moving that way, since the fight will be over very quickly, and long before you get there, enemy teams will already be done with a fight and scouting the open fields for any team pushing that way (had a teammate rushing ahead of us towards the sound of a fight, only to see him teamshot from rooftops as we approached cover from an opening. Was the enemy down to their final HP points? Irrelevant, they had their sights trained on the horizon already, which leads to point 2:

This is interesting, thanks. Marathon was the FIRST extraction shooter I've played, and while I found the audio to be invaluable, it seems wild that the hostile nature of the game precludes such interactions as you describe above.

Gameplay Balance and Options:

In games like Arc Raiders and DMZ, there is always a moment when you and another player meet. Do you shoot? Do you communicate? Do you pass each other peacefully? Do you help? Do you offer trades? What do you do? And if you hesitate to shoot, what will it cost you? How safe do you feel throughout?
This is one of the most exclusive elements of Extraction Shooters: When extraction is your goal, everything else is a choice. Every single decision has a consequence. I had a moment in Arc Raiders where I followed the sounds of a solo player fighting for his life against multiple Wasps. I positioned myself upstairs in a nearby building as the fight moved in my direction. He eventually holed up in a hut below me. I had a clear shot on every Wasp... but after looking at how small his hut was, I thought to myself 'wouldn't it be funnier if I spammed grenades into his refuge?'. Deciding that yes, yes it would, I proceeded to drain him of his healing supplies, before he made a break for it as the Wasps lit him up. Unfortunately, as his flare ascended to meet me at eye level, the Wasps turned their eyes to follow it up to me. As my back was riddled with bullets I wondered: What if I had helped him instead? The enemy all trained on him, it would have been easy. Would he have been grateful? Would he have considered me his next threat? Would we have been able to extract together and forge a real friendship? We'll never know, because of a single decision.

None of this is possible in Marathon. In theory yes, but 1. The enemies don't seem varied enough, and 2. It's basically shoot on sight.

In Marathon, you run into players so rarely that an encounter inevitably devolves into gunfire. Tell me you have ever had a moment where you see a cloaked player scurrying around and you don't immediately open fire on him. He's a rare threat, and a threat at all times. Balance-wise, any hesitation to fire is almost guaranteed to get you killed, because guns are super accurate (even the slow-traveling bolts seem to have some lock-on). Because of this, there is zero incentive to separate from your teammates, and zero incentive to hesitate if you can get the first shots off.

Never. When you see a player it's either kill, or run. Nothing else.

In DMZ, we had a scenario where Fooch was gunned down as we pushed across a street. His killer turned a corner and met my shotgun against his nose. TTK was short, but now we had an encounter on our hands. Hearing his teammates running to get high ground in the building across the street, Sammy and I quickly took low cover. And what followed was... We talked. They claimed to be working on their shotgunned partner's quest, which required him extracting alive. Knowing they had better positioning, one of them came out of cover slowly as a sign of goodwill. We agreed to let them revive their teammate if they let us revive Fooch first. They agreed. Tensions were high, but everyone was soon standing and both teams were face to face. They asked if we wanted to team up to knock out our own quests. We agreed, and one of them called in an APC. What followed was some of the most fun we had in DMZ, rolling up on enemy bases as a heavily armored platoon, knocking out quest after quest, before extracting together and going our separate ways.

I just don't see this happening in Marathon. The game is too... aggressive.

You are correct. Even for the things like the high value commanders, I've never seen a single team, or groups of solos team up to take it down. Mostly they are just left alone and alive.

I've always said, Lore Isn't Story.
Lore can supplement story and enrich the world, but it can not replace a narrative. Marathon has shot itself in the foot by tying its lore to the existing Marathon universe, then being set way after it, so you can only really look into the past. Even Apex Legends, which takes place decades after Titanfall, follows a narrative. Characters have evolving dialogue and relationships. They have ups and downs, the game world is affected by the ongoing story, and the world feels alive and ongoing.
Where do you see Marathon's story going when everything is disembodied voices and audiologs?

There basically is no story. What you are unlocking is lore. After visiting the same place over and over… with 4 maps how much 'story' do you think there can really be, when each is designed only as a playground to loot and fight?

It's just not what I wanted next from Bungie, and it doesn't feel like they've learned anything from what has made extraction shooters popular in the past decade. It definitely feels like something designed to train people on the idea of an extraction shooter before they look for a better one, but they're charging money for this. In that regard, DMZ is leagues above it in that regard, and is way more fun in the moment-to-moment gameplay.

Kahzgul loves extraction shooters, particularly DMZ. He hated Marathon. If you can't get the extraction shooter fans, and you can't get the casuals… I dunno man.

AS I said I only got to play rook once, but the UESC ID shield thing id not last nearly as long as I expected it would from the description.

One thing that tripped me up at first was that is deactivates if you sprint. So, you only get the full duration if you are walking the whole time, and take no damage from anything.

In Marathon, you run into players so rarely that an encounter inevitably devolves into gunfire.

My one and only friendly interaction ironically involved gunfire.

Someone downed me near an exfil point. He then told me to crawl to it, and he'd let me exfil. He only downed me so he knew he'd be safe, but he didn't want to jank me.

I think about one of my favorite DayZ clips. While not an extraction shooter as such, it's made with almost all of the same ingredients, minus the extraction itself. In the clip, a duo use proximity chat and the promise of gifting a food item to lure another player into dropping her guard:

Spaghetti Betrayal

Can you see an organic moment like this happening in Marathon?

The UI is horrendous. Want to redeem a contract? Good luck.

It's two clicks, and they badge them for you post run?

Want to browse the armory? I didn't realize you could switch between factions on the armory screen until the final day.

It's presented as a sidebar list of the factions you can click on? (or D-pad for speed)

This is one point where the internet is NOT being overly critical. It's just awful.

I'm not saying the UI is perfect, but I don't get these problems. For one example: Being able to ID items at a glance is tough. Essential info gets hidden behind the price, unless you toggle showing price with the left thumbstick? It labels which weapon attachments can't be used, but which gun can use them only is identified after you hover on one, and there is no way to show which will work with a specific gun. I imagine this is a "you'll learn over time" thing, but would it not be a good thing for clicking or hovering that open slot?

Mechanically, everything feels great. But there's only so much of this shoot, loot, extract loop that I can take. It gets old fast. And with the story being presented in a way that is NOT going to satisfy you, doing the priority contracts to see it won't motivate you.

I agree. I wonder, though, if I am too stuck in thinking in Destiny terms where I expect to loose tons of hours to something. Maybe this will just be something I Play a couple hours a week.

My prediction is that the game will have a modest launch, and retain a smaller dedicated group of players. I think most people probably will have tried the server slam and said it's not for them, or else give up shortly after launch. Among the remaining players, the lowest skilled ones will get trounced, and they'll bounce. Then that will repeat, until only a small group of hardcore players are left. New players won't come in, since the onboarding is really really bad, and you'll be facing other players with more accumulated knowledge and skill.

Yeah I posted a similarly concerned thought. I think the (reported) lack of skill-based matchmaking will drive people out even harder.

Oh, yeah, it's in the description. Shooting too.

Kahzgul loves extraction shooters, particularly DMZ. He hated Marathon. If you can't get the extraction shooter fans, and you can't get the casuals… I dunno man.

I don't Creator/Influencer support is a good yard stick, but Burnt Peanut likes it well enough to yell at people in his chat for complaining about it or telling him to play something else. Can't beat that for approval of extraction shooter fans. (He got really paid, but also lost money by playing the server slam, so I figure it evens out bias wise)

I enjoyed it more the more I played it. I still don't anticipate playing it much, and I don't have high hopes for the longevity and health of the player base, but I think the game is worth $40 to have access to in case anyone ever wants to play it with me. I don't think it'll be worth pouring any microtransaction money into, though.

My prediction is that the game will have a modest launch, and retain a smaller dedicated group of players. I think most people probably will have tried the server slam and said it's not for them, or else give up shortly after launch. Among the remaining players, the lowest skilled ones will get trounced, and they'll bounce. Then that will repeat, until only a small group of hardcore players are left. New players won't come in, since the onboarding is really really bad, and you'll be facing other players with more accumulated knowledge and skill.

Yeah I posted a similarly concerned thought. I think the (reported) lack of skill-based matchmaking will drive people out even harder.

I am really curious what this will mean for Bungie long term. I guess anything could happen, but I'd be very surprised if this ends up being a major hit for Bungie. It'll probably do okay, maybe even well enough that they could support it for years and years from whatever it brings in, but I really don't see it being a Destiny level success, and I'm afraid that's what Sony feels like they need from Bungie. And I wonder whether that means they get put on life support to keep whatever money rolling in they can, or if they full pivot to Destiny 3 or something, which, despite the general attitude of the internet right now, I still think could come out swinging and regain a bunch of new and old players and find success.

Stats of what you all got up to during Server Slam! pic.twitter.com/CV5U7kQbgj

— Marathon (@MarathonTheGame) March 3, 2026

For the twitter-averse:

• 9,152,844 Enemy Runners Killed
  
• 129,160,828 UESC Enemies Killed
  
• 16,554,683 Total Deaths
  
• 997,950 Rooks Deployed
  
• 549,445 Rook Deaths
  
• 1.3% No Exfil Matches (ie. Matches where no players on the entire map extracted)
  
• 41.8% Perimeter Exfil Rate
  
• 35.6% Dire Marsh Exfil rate
  
• Most Popular Runner Shell: Assassin
  
• 145,822 Premium Tick Milk Extracted
  
• 384,866 Drinkable Cheeseburger Extracted

[*]384,866 Drinkable Cheeseburger Extracted

They come in sharable sizes…

🤢

[*]1.3% No Exfil Matches (ie. Matches where no players on the entire map extracted)

That's a lot, isn't it?

This is interesting, thanks. Marathon was the FIRST extraction shooter I've played, and while I found the audio to be invaluable, it seems wild that the hostile nature of the game precludes such interactions as you describe above.

I’ll say this about Arc Raiders—I think it has the best audio design that I’ve ever heard in a game, and before it I thought Bungie’s games set the gold standard. Part of that is the perception is it’s so important. You pay attention to it because it really matters. I don’t know objectively that Marathon’s audio is worse than Arc Raiders, but I concede the point that it’s less valuable because of the time to kill. I did play a bit more than a bit of the server slam, but I’m not going to go on highlighting what it lacks compared to other games. I’ll just say that I liked it more the more I played. I understood it more the more I played, and it consistently provided memorable moments. Arc Raiders does, too, and I think it’s a feature of extraction shooters. These games provide stakes, and that can feel novel. I remember when recruiting for raids, sometimes it was hard to instill that a commitment to a period of time mattered because other people’s time mattered. Maybes and mights and having to stop because you needed a snack had a cost. Yes, it’s just a video game, but there’s no pause button in extraction shooters. You have to achieve something to quit without losing something.

One more thing about the comparison to Arc Raiders: I don’t think Embark envisioned all of the organic dynamics that arose in their game. I would be shocked if Marathon doesn’t have its version of the same. If anyone reading this wants to join me Thursday night, I’ll be on and will appreciate the company—just let me listen to the cutscenes.

One more thing about the comparison to Arc Raiders: I don’t think Embark envisioned all of the organic dynamics that arose in their game. I would be shocked if Marathon doesn’t have its version of the same. If anyone reading this wants to join me Thursday night, I’ll be on and will appreciate the company—just let me listen to the cutscenes.

I don’t think they anticipated the extent to which players would cooperate. I don’t remember where I saw it at this point, but the devs said that the high tier ARC are tricky to get right because they didn’t anticipate the entire lobby teaming up to kill them. They’re too easy when that happens, but how do you adjust that without making it completely necessary for the whole lobby to team up?

I think there’s potential for Marathon to have that if they lean in to public event style things, maybe even light dungeon style encounters. But how do you make that work in an extraction shooter where any other player could also just kill you? I’ll be interested to see if anything like that makes it into the game.

One idea I thought of is to find ways to incentivize cooperation. Give rewards for reviving other players. Bonus drops next round if you extract without killing any player. It would be tricky, but a little sweetener that makes everything less zero sum might make it more interesting. But what do I know?

Skill-up just posted his impressions after a dozen hours with Marathon, and it's eerie how much he basically just echoes my own thoughts, down to bringing up non-extraction shooters like Warzone and Apex as having sauce that Marathon just lacks.

tl;dr:

• Marathon is a competitive team shooter with an Extraction shooter skin, leading to 12 hours of ambivalence and a complete dearth of interesting ways to engage with the game between the rare firefights with other players.
  
• Lore is not a substitute for story
  
• Environments are completely bland and poorly designed once the bright colors don't grab your attention anymore.

I played a bit on and off on Saturday, and then a quick lunchtime run on Monday. Some with groups, some without (I didn't do the Rook thing).

This just seems like a cool game. I failed a bunch of missions and was still having fun, so I'm taking that as a good sign. I liked that you can't hold your gear too precious - at some point you have to assume you are going to lose it, so you might as well use it. I was also intrigued by the lore snippets - I don't mind if stories happen in the background without me.

Probably I've just played too much Destiny, but this felt pretty fresh, somewhat for reasons of not being Destiny.

Bungie gave a bit of info about how seasons will work in Marathon.

Three month seasons, with forced resets. Everything else is about what you'd expect. New guns, shells, mods, map variants and activities, etc. with new seasons. The only thing you keep between resets is cosmetics and and codex progression.

In regards to him saying there wasn't anything cool to do…

You're on Dire Marsh, and a big UESC ship comes in overhead. It starts to lockdown the area, and a popup comes that says "Leave area immediately".

If you follow the instructions the game gives you, then you will have no chance to even KNOW there's a lucrative event inside the lockdown. If you use anti-virus packs, you can stay inside and do a kind of wave clearing activity for lots of loot.

So… why does the game tell you to leave? Is it any wonder he thinks there's nothing to do when the game is actively telling you NOT to do the events? If you wanted to preserve the sense of discovery… why say anything at all? Just let players discover what it all means instead of actively steering them away.

In regards to him saying there wasn't anything cool to do…

You're on Dire Marsh, and a big UESC ship comes in overhead. It starts to lockdown the area, and a popup comes that says "Leave area immediately".

If you follow the instructions the game gives you, then you will have no chance to even KNOW there's a lucrative event inside the lockdown. If you use anti-virus packs, you can stay inside and do a kind of wave clearing activity for lots of loot.

So… why does the game tell you to leave? Is it any wonder he thinks there's nothing to do when the game is actively telling you NOT to do the events? If you wanted to preserve the sense of discovery… why say anything at all? Just let players discover what it all means instead of actively steering them away.

Okay, I don't buy this at all. Have you ever played a video game before? I cannot fathom seeing something like that happen, seeing a message to leave, and then not sticking around just to see what is actually going on.

Do you also follow the traffic laws in GTA or stop when a guard tells you to in Dishonored?

I guess we can argue about what makes for good game design, but at a certain point, you either buy into the world they're creating in Marathon or you don't. I think we have to assume players are smart enough to not take everything at face value and realize when things are diagetic. If we can't even give them that much respect, what are we even doing here? There are tons of locked doors and containers around the map, too. Do players just assume those aren't accessible, or are they smart enough to think that maybe there's a key somewhere that will allow them to get in?

You clearly figured it out, as you told us how to complete the event.

I guess we can argue about what makes for good game design, but at a certain point, you either buy into the world they're creating in Marathon or you don't. I think we have to assume players are smart enough to not take everything at face value and realize when things are diagetic. If we can't even give them that much respect, what are we even doing here? There are tons of locked doors and containers around the map, too. Do players just assume those aren't accessible, or are they smart enough to think that maybe there's a key somewhere that will allow them to get in?

And yet he, and others, have been complaining online about a lack of things to do and objectives on the maps. So I will bet you 100 bucks Skill Up probably saw that message at one point and got out of the area, without realizing staying with a anti-virus kit was not only how to remain in the area and not die, but that there were lucrative events in there during the lockdown. I think so very clearly people are not exploring this game at all and taking everything at face value.

Show of hands, how many people here knew you could do this event? What about the unstable matter event, or the data cards that lead to a huge cache?

Show of hands, how many people here knew you could do this event? What about the unstable matter event, or the data cards that lead to a huge cache?

I think you are vastly overstating how obtuse any of this is. These are like one step above Destiny public events. It's not that complicated.

Show of hands, how many people here knew you could do this event? What about the unstable matter event, or the data cards that lead to a huge cache?

I think you are vastly overstating how obtuse any of this is. These are like one step above Destiny public events. It's not that complicated.

So… is he stupid?

In regards to him saying there wasn't anything cool to do…

You're on Dire Marsh, and a big UESC ship comes in overhead. It starts to lockdown the area, and a popup comes that says "Leave area immediately".

If you follow the instructions the game gives you, then you will have no chance to even KNOW there's a lucrative event inside the lockdown. If you use anti-virus packs, you can stay inside and do a kind of wave clearing activity for lots of loot.

So… why does the game tell you to leave? Is it any wonder he thinks there's nothing to do when the game is actively telling you NOT to do the events? If you wanted to preserve the sense of discovery… why say anything at all? Just let players discover what it all means instead of actively steering them away.

Okay, I don't buy this at all. Have you ever played a video game before? I cannot fathom seeing something like that happen, seeing a message to leave, and then not sticking around just to see what is actually going on.

In a game with tiered loot, seeing something that is clearly telling you "you shouldn't be here" will make a sizeable percentage of players feel like their current easily-lost gear is not up to snuff. When presented with a new problem that they don't yet understand, and they are given instructions, most people will follow directions- especially in a high-stakes environment.

Remember when we played Second Extinction, and the majority of the map was marked off as a forbidden zone? Obviously you and I skipped merrily into it, but I wouldn't be surprised if most other players took one look at the dinosaurs in there and noped out because the game was explicitly telling them that it was suicide (you and I learned that that was where the fun was actually hiding)..

I guess we can argue about what makes for good game design, but at a certain point, you either buy into the world they're creating in Marathon or you don't. I think we have to assume players are smart enough to not take everything at face value and realize when things are diagetic.

Need I point you to videos of game journalists being clueless in the face of the game trying its best to hold their hand? Now let's look over at the "ball and gun gamer", which makes up a huge portion of the gaming population. Developers who want mass appeal have to build games around these people. Bungie needs mass appeal right now, so its fair to assume that the game will lay things out at face value, even if it's through horrible walls of text that nobody but a few players will read anyway...

If we can't even give them that much respect, what are we even doing here? There are tons of locked doors and containers around the map, too. Do players just assume those aren't accessible, or are they smart enough to think that maybe there's a key somewhere that will allow them to get in?

I wouldn't imagine that an average player comes up to a locked door while looting, and begins pondering possible methods of ingress. I think they'll just jiggle the doorknob, then look for another container to loot and never think twice about the locked door. I think those things go into "community interaction", where word of mouth and online posts begin to find ways into those locked rooms before any of that becomes common knowledge. I wouldn't waste my time looking for a key when I have more readily-available resources to scavenge and a need to find ammo.

I mean, we never even got around to getting access to that Dungeon in DMZ, and the game told us how to do it.

I'm not really sure? I've played for quite a while and almost all of it has been learnign what the game is. It's my first extraction shooter, but also there's just a lot to learn.

Executive summary of what I know so far: Guns feel really good. The visuals and dark scifi is really up my alley personally. Playing as a crew of two is a big mistake. Everything else would be a long ramble.

SO, here's a long ramble:

Its hard to get the character from Thursday night day one of a network stress test release as all of that is bound to influence the population that shows up, but so far it is absolutely not going to be the Kumbaya fest of arc raiders. Simply not having aggression-based matchmaking will cause that. But also Marathon broke the prox chat in the test yesterday so that also made things only ever go in one direction.

Last night things felt…steadier. Hard to know if I changed, the game changed, or the players changed. I had more fun with it.

The learning curve is steep. Items do look too similar, but I think the UI is fine once you build muscle memory of what the buttons do. Reminds me of Apex in that way. The ttk feels similar too, actually.
Most of the learning I have had to do is about what the factions represent and what they will sell or barter (one group more about healing and armor, another for weapon mods, one for explosive, etc.) that’s where the long-term power enhancement comes from. All gear is just held temporarily as it floats by in the river of time.

Late Thursday night I switched to solo queue and had a MUCH easier time of things. I basically had the rook experience without being a rook. Using a low level kit to get some kills lost to the limit and exfil out. but I’m not sure if that was down to people going to sleep.

The other thing experience has given me is more awareness of world events. How to trigger them, where they happen, and the kind of gear that results.

I’m many hours in, level 14, (also played some in a pre-beta test) and I still feel like I’m only just starting to understand how the game works. Combined with the real detriment of using crew filling with match made people, and (rumors?) of no skill/experiance matchmaking algorithms I have to wonder if enough people- or what kind of people - will stick it out through the tough beginning to get to the good parts. And there are a lot of signs that it has a lot of good parts.

Last night I played with a friend who was literally just starting, and I was basically telling him things about the game the entire time. I guess that's a better experience than how I learned it all? Faster, and less confusing certainly. Playing with a crew of two is still the hardest way to play, but it was not the meat grinder Cody and I had Thursday.

The other issue is if people at large even really want an extraction shooter. Arc raiders got a bit of popularity from trying to be more accessible and so they chased that so hard it’s not really giving people the extraction shooter experience. The earlier ones never really took off. You “win” about as much as in Apex/fortnite, but it feels more frustrating to lose when it actually hurts you by losing your stuff. Bungie has already said people are doing contracts and leaving faster than expected, which is making the more risk tolerant and the pvp focused people feel like the runs are empty.

I still have seen zero people choose non-aggression, let alone cooperation.

OTOH, it is compelling to actually care if you win and I came out of both days with unique stories of what happened because of things not being essentially the same every run.

And it does feel like maybe the best gunfeel and most team/class based shooter Bungie has ever done which is saying a lot.

The visual style and sci-fi dystopia writing is right up my alley, but is another thing making me wonder how many people even want this.

Anyway, I put my pre-order in.

Even initially shot someone, apologized and then exfil'd together. I would say most of the time I've talked anyone down, they couldn't see me.

I really like it. I wish I were a better PVP player. It’s fun with friends. Raga taught me the other night just how careful you have to be. I think that’s something that a lot of people don’t realize. Running is dangerous. I don’t think people realize it’s a stealth game, even with three players.

Love the art, love the gun play, love the world building. Seems like it has a lot of potential in terms of experimentation. There’s a lot of potential for synergy that I think INSANEdrive would dig.

I think a lot of the criticism is unfair. I disagree about the IU. It’s beginning to make some sense. This game has a learning curve. There’s no doubt about that.

I thought this guy made some good points.

https://youtu.be/q9QBgaDf0Zg?si=egZTEWf5NeCdz5QN

See you starside.

My friend said you joined our fireteam and left, sorry I didn't catch ya this test.

Show of hands, how many people here knew you could do this event? What about the unstable matter event, or the data cards that lead to a huge cache?

I think you are vastly overstating how obtuse any of this is. These are like one step above Destiny public events. It's not that complicated.

So… is he stupid?

I don’t know, but I doubt it. He’s played a lot of Destiny and The Division. He knows how this shit works.

I only played for like maybe two hours, but I’d have also said there’s not really much to do. I just didn’t run into many of these events when I played. Part of that is likely that most of the rounds I had were short, either because I died, or because I did my objective and got out.

Never. When you see a player it's either kill, or run. Nothing else.

I've downed someone, given them a self revive and went on my way.

I've helped someone struggling with a guarded exfil and then exfil'd with them

I've ceded hauler to someone and went on my way.

The game is SO much cooler and interesting if you don't shoot on site.

I knew about the data cards. I figured it out without people telling me. Other events, people told me about. I'm fine learning either way. I agree with concern that people will eject from the game before they find what makes it good. I also agree it is OK for the game not to hold your hand about everything (particularly events happening in a weird environment you are told to discover over time). The argument is did they get the balance right.

Saw you on. If memory serves, you're going to be going at this hardcore, but if see me and want to join up, please do.

I want a game from which I can take time off without much FOMO. Still worry about being up to snuff, but this might be the one.

Show of hands, how many people here knew you could do this event? What about the unstable matter event, or the data cards that lead to a huge cache?

I think you are vastly overstating how obtuse any of this is. These are like one step above Destiny public events. It's not that complicated.

So… is he stupid?

I don’t know, but I doubt it. He’s played a lot of Destiny and The Division. He knows how this shit works.

I only played for like maybe two hours, but I’d have also said there’s not really much to do. I just didn’t run into many of these events when I played. Part of that is likely that most of the rounds I had were short, either because I died, or because I did my objective and got out.

Some of the things he said just seemed inaccurate. There's no crafting? Maybe I don't understand what that word means. I like Skill Up. I'm putting a lot of weight on his disclaimer that this is not a review. It is a talent to be able to play a new game for a bit and yet have so much to say.

Is there crafting? I genuinely don't know. I didn't see it, but I didn't spend much time in the menus really looking at stuff. I just accepted quests and went into a match for the most part.

Is there crafting? I genuinely don't know. I didn't see it, but I didn't spend much time in the menus really looking at stuff. I just accepted quests and went into a match for the most part.

Chip mods are basically gun perks in destiny. You can add them to a green weapon to make it a blue weapon. That seems pretty crafty.

I don’t think that’s what he is referring to by crafting. In Arc Raiders you can buy gear with currency from vendors, or you can use all the materials you pick up to craft gear at your benches, but you need to find blueprints to be able to craft all the gear. That doesn’t exist in Marathon, as far as I know.

If anyone from DBO is online this afternoon and wants to run, hit me up at Bonehelm#7641.

If anyone from DBO is online this afternoon and wants to run, hit me up at Bonehelm#7641.

I'll be on shortly.

Kermit#3781

I don’t think that’s what he is referring to by crafting. In Arc Raiders you can buy gear with currency from vendors, or you can use all the materials you pick up to craft gear at your benches, but you need to find blueprints to be able to craft all the gear. That doesn’t exist in Marathon, as far as I know.

You can 'barter' items on the black market, which is functionally the same thing as crafting. You take an item or items, and they become a new item.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/1rls6ca/this_need_to_stop/

TL;DR

Cosmetics cost 1120, you buy currency in packs of 1100.

If anyone from DBO is online this afternoon and wants to run, hit me up at Bonehelm#7641.

Anyone can fee free to add me as well. EffortlessFury#5736

The factions also unlock items for barter/purchase which kinda sub in for the blueprints.

The tech reviewer Marques Brownlee once said that you should buy tech based on what the product is TODAY, not what the company says it will be later.

Bungie has asked review outlets to not review the game as it is today. Not the game that you will play for a month, but the game that will exist at the end of March. The request was sent out to not publish reviews until the Marathon cryo archive map drops.

This seems like a vault of glass situation all over again, no? Why would you not want people to know what the game is like TODAY? The only reason I can think of is because they believe it is weak. Sure, I’ll bet Cryo Archive is a cool map, but everything leading up to it should be cool too.

Asking people not to review the game that is in people’s hands right now is not a good sign.

Picking up an item should not be a different button depending on whether I am looking at the item inside a container or looking at an item outside of a container.

I should not have to use the cursor to see which friends are playing. I also should be able to see who is in a game party unless that is made private.

Okay, maybe that's three.

The tech reviewer Marques Brownlee once said that you should buy tech based on what the product is TODAY, not what the company says it will be later.

Definitely agreed.

Bungie has asked review outlets to not review the game as it is today. Not the game that you will play for a month, but the game that will exist at the end of March. The request was sent out to not publish reviews until the Marathon cryo archive map drops.

Was this an embargo or a request, because those are two totally different situations.

This seems like a vault of glass situation all over again, no? Why would you not want people to know what the game is like TODAY? The only reason I can think of is because they believe it is weak. Sure, I’ll bet Cryo Archive is a cool map, but everything leading up to it should be cool too.

Asking people not to review the game that is in people’s hands right now is not a good sign.

Dude, I think you're being a little harsh. I believe this is your first experience with extraction shooters, yes? It's par for the course -- Labs in Tarkov, Stella Montis in Arc Raiders, etc. You allow the community to warm up with the gameplay systems and mechanics, build hype, and then unleash the 'more difficult' map now that players feel a little more comfortable.

What you played in the server slam was essentially the full experience; love it or hate it.

Bungie took heavy inspiration from Escape from Tarkov, which doesn't have any direct team-count matchmaking either, so the design choice may have just been carry-over. There is some intrigue and tension in not knowing how many players you're facing in a squad... but I think I prefer direct solos-duos-trios playlists.

The ambiguity of two or three cuts both ways. Raga, Blacktiger, and I were caught out by a team who were camping around a supply drop. They killed all three of us, but never at the same time. We managed to extract at the end but at first there was a lot of tension around whether or not or when that team would begin to assume there were only two of us.

I'm not the best extraction shooter player because I'm not a great PVP player (I'm working on it), but one thing I love about them is how they lend themselves to creating little stories that you remember.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marathon/comments/1rls6ca/this_need_to_stop/

TL;DR

Cosmetics cost 1120, you buy currency in packs of 1100.

They're changing the pack to be worth 1120.

80k at launch is somewhere between EoF and Renegades. I’m worried.

80k at launch is somewhere between EoF and Renegades. I’m worried.

Just play the game if you like it and are having fun. Player count is Bungie and Sony’s problem, not yours. I’d try not think about it actually.

- No text -

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Because most places will only write one review on it, and they want the Cryo Archive (and the player experience of getting access to it) to be part of that review. It's also a bit of a risk, as there will not be reviews available for the first few weeks it is available, and that's when it would synergize best with the marketing campaign. It's a decision to think longer-term and it's something I am glad to see for a live-service game.

Also, if the game knows I can't join (shows a tiny play icon or whatever) don't show the giant join crew button?

I mostly agree with Cody, but since it's primarily a PvP game active player base is the player's problem, a bit. I have not run into long load times, and if anything the skill balance has only improved over the course of the Beta Test/Slam/Launch process so no need for me to worry yet, but…

Because most places will only write one review on it, and they want the Cryo Archive (and the player experience of getting access to it) to be part of that review. It's also a bit of a risk, as there will not be reviews available for the first few weeks it is available, and that's when it would synergize best with the marketing campaign. It's a decision to think longer-term and it's something I am glad to see for a live-service game.

Ideally, I think anyone reviewing games who takes it seriously would do both. Here’s what the game is right now, more to come in a few weeks. I understand games reviews is basically a dying business, but that makes it even more unreasonable to wait. People care about Marathon now, now is when you’re going to get the eyeballs. Will that be true in a month?

My concern is for Bungie.

It has nothing to do with the quality of Marathon itself. Sony has been laying off staff and shutting down games and studios at an alarming pace. Just this last week or so, I saw that they closed Bluepoint Games, who made one of THE best remasters ever released on par with Capcom's Resident Evil remakes.

The trend is clear: Sony wants breakout hits. Modest successes are seen as failures to them. Studios that fail to deliver breakout hits get hit.

My concern is for Bungie.

It has nothing to do with the quality of Marathon itself. Sony has been laying off staff and shutting down games and studios at an alarming pace. Just this last week or so, I saw that they closed Bluepoint Games, who made one of THE best remasters ever released on par with Capcom's Resident Evil remakes.

The trend is clear: Sony wants breakout hits. Modest successes are seen as failures to them. Studios that fail to deliver breakout hits get hit.

Well, maybe we can get a Clair Obscur situation where a bunch of ex-Bungie talent go make a killer game. They’ve tried before with… varying degrees of success. It always seems like the Bungie magic is with the whole, not with the parts.

While the playerbase has been gradually trending downward every day (as the barrier to entry slowly grows as well), Rebecca Ford (the ever-wonderful and fearless), Creative Director of Warframe, has chimed in to defend Marathon's uphill battle in the packed gaming landscape of today:

Ford: “Naming the next Warframe we release “Player Count” to pollute the searches and defend against the discourse.”

Twitter Dork: “Or devs could do what you and yours did. Make a good/decent game that gets enough retention to fund further development.”

We got incredibly lucky. We were broke. There were less than 500 other games released the year Warframe released. Every day people care about Warframe is a gift and we’re only as good as our last update.

— rebb ford (@rebbford) March 10, 2026

Here's hoping that Cryo map pulls a Vault of Glass for player hype, otherwise- I dunno what Sony will do given the fact that they need a significant Return on Investment from Bungie...

Man, I got nothing but respect for Rebecca Ford and the entire Warframe team. What a class act. She could easily just say nothing at all, but instead she chimes in to defend Bungie and explain what they are facing.

That's such a weak argument honestly.

Sure there are way more games now, but the huge majority of them are junk garbage nobody would want to play. They aren't your competition if you make a decent game, the same way some random shitty show on Netflix isn't going to compete with Severance.

Even if only 5% of those new games are good, that's still over a thousand additional titles the Warframe people didn't have to contend with.

Hell, those 500 from Warframe weren't all masterpieces either. The argument she was making considers trash games too...

You can't force fun, or community or engagement.

You don't just build Halo 2 and a rabid player base. It just happens. It's a lightning strike. It happens organically.

Make your game fun first. Keep the price reasonable. People will play, they'll get their friends to play. That's the best you can do.

I wish Marathon the best of luck, because that is what it mostly comes down to.

I haven't played it myself (as I've said before, it's just not up my alley), but user reviews are good and the player base seem to really enjoy what they've been given. In other words: It looks like it has succeeded at being fun.

Also, just for clarity, in case anyone cares: I followed the game as it went through development and did finally get a chance to try it out pre-release (in the Server Slam). I wanted to give it a fair shake. The core gameplay looked really intriguing, so I figured I ought to actually put some time into it before making a final decision.

It's just not for me. PvP-only is not my thing. The people who are into that sort of thing (and have actually purchased the game) are saying it's very fun, though.

I haven't played it myself (as I've said before, it's just not up my alley), but user reviews are good and the player base seem to really enjoy what they've been given. In other words: It looks like it has succeeded at being fun.

The game was reportedly refunded 500 thousand times on steam. The reviews you see are from the players who liked the game from the server slam and bought in. Since steam requires you to have bought the game to leave a review, this is self selecting for the people who knew they were going to buy and like the game.

Look at the metacritic rating, It is 70 critic, 5.6 audience.

I think Marathon has indeed succeeded in being fun… for a very particular kind of audience.

I think Marathon has indeed succeeded in being fun… for a very particular kind of audience.

Which is what Bungie should have expected. Perhaps they could have hoped that somehow the extraction shooter genre would see a boom like the battle royale genre did, but the nature of the genre made that less than likely. If their bet on Marathon hinged on extraction shooters becoming mainstream, they lost before they even launched the game, and that's that.

The game was reportedly refunded 500 thousand times on steam.

SteamDB doesn’t track refunds. Only developers have access to those metrics. You can’t just believe any random shit you read on Twitter.

The game was reportedly refunded 500 thousand times on steam.

this is self selecting for the people who knew they were going to buy and like the game.

These are two contradicting statements, for what it's worth...

While the playerbase has been gradually trending downward every day (as the barrier to entry slowly grows as well)[…]

Does the barrier to entry grow? I'm not so sure. Most of the patch notes this week were about making it an easier onboarding experience. As the more capable players have leveled up they have migrated away from Perimeter toward Dire marsh and Outpost, where they are focused on each other for PVP. Meanwhile, the inventory or starter guides and explainers is much much higher than it was at launch.

The game was reportedly refunded 500 thousand times on steam.

SteamDB doesn’t track refunds. Only developers have access to those metrics. You can’t just believe any random shit you read on Twitter.

When did I mention steamdb?

The game was reportedly refunded 500 thousand times on steam.

this is self selecting for the people who knew they were going to buy and like the game.

These are two contradicting statements, for what it's worth...

Can you review a game that you’ve refunded? I assume you can?! I know you can sort reviews by playtime, and the main display prioritizes reviews with a decent amount of playtime vs like 30 mins or something.

The game was reportedly refunded 500 thousand times on steam.

SteamDB doesn’t track refunds. Only developers have access to those metrics. You can’t just believe any random shit you read on Twitter.

When did I mention steamdb?

Okay but what is your source, given that such information has no public vectors?

The game was reportedly refunded 500 thousand times on steam.

SteamDB doesn’t track refunds. Only developers have access to those metrics. You can’t just believe any random shit you read on Twitter.

When did I mention steamdb?

Okay but what is your source, given that such information has no public vectors?

The source is total bullshit!

Apparently that number WAS pulled from SteamDB, which is impossible.

Fake news.

You can't force fun, or community or engagement.

You don't just build Halo 2 and a rabid player base. It just happens. It's a lightning strike. It happens organically.

Make your game fun first. Keep the price reasonable. People will play, they'll get their friends to play. That's the best you can do.

I wish Marathon the best of luck, because that is what it mostly comes down to.

This statement makes me think about Helldivers. The first game was extremely fun, it was free for all PS+ subscribers, and it came out on PS3, PS4, and Vita simultaneously... And it was still a niche game. A commited playerbase sure, but even now, you don't hear too much chatter about it online.

Then Helldivers 2 launched at $40, and was so popular that successfully getting into a server was a whole thing for nearly a month, and people happily stood in the digital rain for hours to get in. What changed?

It may really just come down to luck and timing.

RIP Titanfall 2.

You can't force fun, or community or engagement.

You don't just build Halo 2 and a rabid player base. It just happens. It's a lightning strike. It happens organically.

Make your game fun first. Keep the price reasonable. People will play, they'll get their friends to play. That's the best you can do.

I wish Marathon the best of luck, because that is what it mostly comes down to.

This statement makes me think about Helldivers. The first game was extremely fun, it was free for all PS+ subscribers, and it came out on PS3, PS4, and Vita simultaneously... And it was still a niche game. A commited playerbase sure, but even now, you don't hear too much chatter about it online.

Then Helldivers 2 launched at $40, and was so popular that successfully getting into a server was a whole thing for nearly a month, and people happily stood in the digital rain for hours to get in. What changed?

It may really just come down to luck and timing.

RIP Titanfall 2.

This must be a nightmare for people making games. When it takes over 6 years to make a game like Marathon, it seems like the 'timing' aspect becomes impossible since you have no idea at all how things will change in that amount of time.

Like, the early 90s and the late 90s almost feel like totally different decades. That's the future you release a game into unless you can make it quickly.

But man… there were some bad choices here let's be honest. Having your story be told with ARG puzzles and talking heads between PvP matches is just so conceptually bad.

You can't force fun, or community or engagement.

You don't just build Halo 2 and a rabid player base. It just happens. It's a lightning strike. It happens organically.

Make your game fun first. Keep the price reasonable. People will play, they'll get their friends to play. That's the best you can do.

I wish Marathon the best of luck, because that is what it mostly comes down to.

This statement makes me think about Helldivers. The first game was extremely fun, it was free for all PS+ subscribers, and it came out on PS3, PS4, and Vita simultaneously... And it was still a niche game. A commited playerbase sure, but even now, you don't hear too much chatter about it online.

Then Helldivers 2 launched at $40, and was so popular that successfully getting into a server was a whole thing for nearly a month, and people happily stood in the digital rain for hours to get in. What changed?

It may really just come down to luck and timing.

RIP Titanfall 2.

This must be a nightmare for people making games. When it takes over 6 years to make a game like Marathon, it seems like the 'timing' aspect becomes impossible since you have no idea at all how things will change in that amount of time.

Especially in the last four years, with GTA6 Looming like Melancholia in the sky, there's been immense pressure to release stuff before it consumes the marketplace entire.
Might be why so much Early Access Friendslop has poured out nonstop.

Like, the early 90s and the late 90s almost feel like totally different decades. That's the future you release a game into unless you can make it quickly.

There's something to be said about that old three-year dev cycle putting out banger after banger only two console generations ago. I think about Gears 3, Halo Reach, Dead Space 2. Games with so much more to offer than the one that came right before them... And now we get unfinished games that have been cooking for what used to be a console's entire lifespan.

But man… there were some bad choices here let's be honest. Having your story be told with ARG puzzles and talking heads between PvP matches is just so conceptually bad.

The first Titanfall should have been a huge red flag for devs. Players don't care about radio dramas being your only narrative in shooters, and they especially don't work for the target audience of extraction shooters, because they're trying to listen for footsteps at all times, and looting as quickly as possible (reading walls of text in an extraction shooter? lol). Save The World in Fortnite does the "Narrative between matches" thing, but I think it being a comedy with a focused narrative helps it go a long way in encouraging players to not just jump into the next match right away; There is actually something to head towards on the horizon.

Respawn applied the radio-drama lesson immediately in Titanfall 2 (again, RIP), and the campaign is one of the most praised FPS campaigns ever, and it was so good that it haunts Apex Legends to this day. Meanwhile, the multiplayer is so locked-in at all times, I can't imagine heads popping in on the corner with people narrating how much of an important adventure they are having.

RIP Titanfall 2.

There's something to be said about that old three-year dev cycle putting out banger after banger only two console generations ago. I think about Gears 3, Halo Reach, Dead Space 2. Games with so much more to offer than the one that came right before them... And now we get unfinished games that have been cooking for what used to be a console's entire lifespan.

https://automaton-media.com/en/news/young-gamers-in-japan-may-not-be-forming-the-same-attachment-to-final-fantasy-or-...

This article posits that the decline of a lot of modern franchises is associated with longer development cycles. The examples of Final Fantasy and Dragon quest taking seven and five years respectfully between releases. Meanwhile, Pokémon remains hugely popular while maintaining semi yearly releases.

The idea is that kids can't really form an attachment to a franchise when their entire childhood passes in between releases.

I think there might be something to that. I also think it might extend to a lot of other media young people are not as interested in such as TV and Movies. When you take so long between seasons of a TV show, or take decades to release a sequel to a movie, I feel like the same thing can happen.

Meanwhile you can see something new in Fortnite weekly, or always play a different thing in Roblox. No wonder that's what the children play.

The idea is that kids can't really form an attachment to a franchise when their entire childhood passes in between releases.

While I agree that the issue is probably more pronounced in kids (due to their relative perception of time), I think this applies to everyone. Passion/interest can only be sustained in-between releases for so long before people start to get bored or seek out something else novel.

Despite the predatory nature of gacha, the one thing I'm thankful for is that there are studios who managed to use that funding model to actually produce episodic content. It's the modern realization of the short-lived attempt from the late 00's/early 10's.

While the playerbase has been gradually trending downward every day (as the barrier to entry slowly grows as well)[…]

Does the barrier to entry grow? I'm not so sure. Most of the patch notes this week were about making it an easier onboarding experience. As the more capable players have leveled up they have migrated away from Perimeter toward Dire marsh and Outpost, where they are focused on each other for PVP. Meanwhile, the inventory or starter guides and explainers is much much higher than it was at launch.

They might've goofed with the audio adjustment. The game felt harder last night. I hear that they might undo that change, though.

The idea is that kids can't really form an attachment to a franchise when their entire childhood passes in between releases.

I think there might be something to that. I also think it might extend to a lot of other media young people are not as interested in such as TV and Movies. When you take so long between seasons of a TV show, or take decades to release a sequel to a movie, I feel like the same thing can happen.

Meanwhile you can see something new in Fortnite weekly, or always play a different thing in Roblox. No wonder that's what the children play.

Intriguing thought. Thanks for sharing, Cody. Like Effortlessfury, I think it applies to more than kids. I adore the show, Pluribus, but I look at its timetable. I look at the actuararial tables and hope that Vince Gilligan makes it to the end. (I hope that *I* make it.)

There are arguably good reasons behind this--higher and higher production values, for instance. What do you think can be done about it?

My completely unrealistic answer is:

1. Lower the production values. Modern audiences have been spoiled rotten. A good story is all that really matters.

2. Start blowing less of the budget on AAA talent. Robert Downey Jr. doesn't need >$100 million to play a comic book villain.

I know this is a pipe dream. I know there are very good financial reasons these seemingly counter-intuitive decisions keep getting made. Yet I cannot shake the feeling that Hollywood is becoming an unsustainable business model.

If nothing changes, the bottom is going to fall out sooner or later.