So to combat quitting Bungie decided to give tokens to the losing team on Iron Banner, which redeem after a win and stack up to 5 times, giving you almost equal rep to a win.

Well guess what? Folks just go afk now. Looks like people are queueing up into matchmaking, leaving, then coming back after 5 games and playing to redeem. I've gotten multiple afk teammates every match.

Guess what the problem is?

The PROPER solution would have been to only give rep on a win, but take it away when you quit. If winning gives you 5 rep, then quitting should remove 5.

Why is it I can solve this shit but Bungie can't?

(It is also unclear as to whether you can buy multiple buffs, or if you can only buy one).

Quitting takes advantage of the benefit of doubt when it comes to unsporting behavior, since their connection could drop, their parents could pull the plug, the house could be on fire, etc.

Idling, however, is almost unambiguously unsporting behavior. Seriously, if you have to go AFK, take your char out of matchmaking ffs. Anything else and you're potentially ruining someone else's experience.

The PROPER solution would have been to only give rep on a win, but take it away when you quit. If winning gives you 5 rep, then quitting should remove 5.

Halo 3 EXP ranks. Remember those?

When people start losing then they AFK anyway. Or start goofing off - blocking potential replacements.

Later, when they've achieved their rank rep goals and (in Destiny) are just plumbing for random end-of-match rewards, the Rep loss loses it's effectiveness as a quit deterrent completely.

Direct quit penalties also induce extra-super-rage at disconnects.

EDIT:

Why is it I can solve this shit but Bungie can't?

So yeah, they already tried it 7 years ago.

I skipped the first iron banner after witnessing the maximum cheese fest and quitting. Now I'm level 29 and would have a sizable advantage, and I'm still going to sit this one out.

I just want to have fun, not sit there and deal with COD style drama.

Still bothered by the fact that the way to have the best stats in the only way to earn the best PvP gear is to have the best PvE gear.

Doesn't Destiny kick you to orbit after a short period of inactivity? I seem to recall being kicked in less than one game but I'd have to test to be sure...

Doesn't Destiny kick you to orbit after a short period of inactivity? I seem to recall being kicked in less than one game but I'd have to test to be sure...

Yes.

Doesn't Destiny kick you to orbit after a short period of inactivity? I seem to recall being kicked in less than one game but I'd have to test to be sure...

yes, but i think you stay in longer if you press start and go to your menu

Why is it I can solve this shit but Bungie can't?

... Well, because you know everything obviously.

Your hyperbole title and constant beating on the same points as if there are no alternative interpretations or experiences, coupled with such pretentious statements as above, reminds me of why I enjoyed this forum more when I mentally blocked your posts. Guess I need to get back to that - I'm out of practice. It even sounds like there's a real issue to talk about somewhere in that post, but you take any enjoyment out of it, so why try? C'ya around.

Direct quit penalties also induce extra-super-rage at disconnects.

This would piss me off more than anything. I would lose it for getting dinged for server connection issues.

Maybe he wouldn't have to beat on the same points if Bungie would FIX the problems that they've created through poor experience management.

I think you can forgive a poster for getting frustrated with the constant mounting problems that are found every day, every patch, every update with this game. Just because there's some frustration in the post, it doesn't negate the validity of his concerns, or even the require you to be so callous in your disregard for it.

Maybe, if Bungie had put out a finished product, instead of a 60% finished project and tweaked on the fly, none of us would be complaining about their screw ups, and instead, lauding the game for its cool factor and tricks and getting outside of maps and flying sparrows upside down and stuff like that. This 'PC version' mentality that a lot of companies seems to be adopting lately (looking at you, Titanfall) where they put out the absolute minimum of a product, then patch the hell out of it, just isn't going to fly with console gamers for very long.

If Cody wants to complain about it, GOOD. I agree with him. Deej reads posts...so if we don't make our points known, it's never going to change. Better to vent about it here, in an organized, respectful setting, than the shitstorm of death that is the Bungie.net venue.

- No text -

Maybe he wouldn't have to beat on the same points if Bungie would FIX the problems that they've created through poor experience management.

I think you can forgive a poster for getting frustrated with the constant mounting problems that are found every day, every patch, every update with this game. Just because there's some frustration in the post, it doesn't negate the validity of his concerns, or even the require you to be so callous in your disregard for it.

Maybe, if Bungie had put out a finished product, instead of a 60% finished project and tweaked on the fly, none of us would be complaining about their screw ups, and instead, lauding the game for its cool factor and tricks and getting outside of maps and flying sparrows upside down and stuff like that. This 'PC version' mentality that a lot of companies seems to be adopting lately (looking at you, Titanfall) where they put out the absolute minimum of a product, then patch the hell out of it, just isn't going to fly with console gamers for very long.

If Cody wants to complain about it, GOOD. I agree with him. Deej reads posts...so if we don't make our points known, it's never going to change. Better to vent about it here, in an organized, respectful setting, than the shitstorm of death that is the Bungie.net venue.

That's nice. But he already had this revelation. Nothing has changed. Cody still takes a horribly condescending tone. The game still has anti-AFK kicking. The most loss coins anyone will get is 1 as Destiny certainly won't let them get 5 AFK games in. No Bungie game since Halo 2 would have. If you want you defend Cody as some sort of insightful voice informing Bungie what is wrong you should pick another issue... This one was used up and noted and read by DeeJ months ago...

On top of that, why do we blame the game when the fault is with the players! Even if you accept that the game tempts or encourages players to do these things, and I don't since I play a game to have fun, it's still bad players doing them! Encourage Bungie to add in harsher AFK and quitting penalties, but blame the ones actually responsible.

Maybe he wouldn't have to beat on the same points if Bungie would FIX the problems that they've created through poor experience management.

I think they are fixing problems.

I think you can forgive a poster for getting frustrated with the constant mounting problems that are found every day, every patch, every update with this game. Just because there's some frustration in the post, it doesn't negate the validity of his concerns, or even the require you to be so callous in your disregard for it.

Again, I don't see mounting problems. I see problems being fixed. Cody congratulating himself for his wisdom does wear thin, and does reduce the effectiveness of communication--that and the fact that he's communicated a variation of the same point repeatedly for years. I don't how long you've been reading the forum, but many of us have come to expect these posts like clockwork.

Maybe, if Bungie had put out a finished product, instead of a 60% finished project and tweaked on the fly, none of us would be complaining about their screw ups, and instead, lauding the game for its cool factor and tricks and getting outside of maps and flying sparrows upside down and stuff like that. This 'PC version' mentality that a lot of companies seems to be adopting lately (looking at you, Titanfall) where they put out the absolute minimum of a product, then patch the hell out of it, just isn't going to fly with console gamers for very long.

C'mon. Do you really believe Destiny is the absolute minimum of a product? Give me a break.

If Cody wants to complain about it, GOOD. I agree with him. Deej reads posts...so if we don't make our points known, it's never going to change. Better to vent about it here, in an organized, respectful setting, than the shitstorm of death that is the Bungie.net venue.

I sure Deej has read his posts 50 times already. We get to complain about Cody, too, if we want to.

- No text -

Maybe he wouldn't have to beat on the same points if Bungie would FIX the problems that they've created through poor experience management.

I think you can forgive a poster for getting frustrated with the constant mounting problems that are found every day, every patch, every update with this game. Just because there's some frustration in the post, it doesn't negate the validity of his concerns, or even the require you to be so callous in your disregard for it.

Maybe, if Bungie had put out a finished product, instead of a 60% finished project and tweaked on the fly, none of us would be complaining about their screw ups, and instead, lauding the game for its cool factor and tricks and getting outside of maps and flying sparrows upside down and stuff like that. This 'PC version' mentality that a lot of companies seems to be adopting lately (looking at you, Titanfall) where they put out the absolute minimum of a product, then patch the hell out of it, just isn't going to fly with console gamers for very long.

We seem have to have very different experiences with Destiny as I've never had "constant, mounting problems" with it, every day, as you seem to suggest you have. I also don't view the game as unfinished, but that's not to say it's perfect.

I'm not against criticism. But I don't enjoy pretentious rants. And I don't enjoy reading them from the same poster every day, on and off for years about every game Bungie makes. If this was his first post like this, I wouldn't have said anything.

If Cody wants to complain about it, GOOD. I agree with him. Deej reads posts...so if we don't make our points known, it's never going to change. Better to vent about it here, in an organized, respectful setting, than the shitstorm of death that is the Bungie.net venue.

And if I want to ignore Cody's rude posts, I can do that too, especially when he breaches that "respectful setting".

This post wasn't directed at everyone who complains about Destiny. This wasn't a "callous disregard" for someone who has had a bad day and goes on a little rant. This was directed at Cody because I've seen this style of post from him, hundreds of times for every game Bungie makes.

My Cody block isn't anything new - our debates and his condescending remarks goes back four or five years at this point, and he's one of the main reasons I often avoid the forums for big chunks of time.

You're actually ignoring half of the problem they were trying to fix. The reason they implemented the coins is they want to make it easier to rank up in Iron Banner. If they had JUST put in penalties for quitting then that wouldn't actually help the people who lose 5 matches in a row from not getting anything towards their Iron Banner rank. I do think there probably needs to be harsher AFK penalties when you are in Matchmaking, but that's not the entire problem. The coins are good step forward, and now they can see the percentage of people that AFK and kick them quicker, and penalize them for multiple AFK kicks, or find a similar system.

TL;DR: Quitting was just the symptom, the problem is the difficulty in getting Iron Banner Reputation. Treating just the symptom won't solve the underlying problem.

We seem have to have very different experiences with Destiny as I've never had "constant, mounting problems" with it, every day, as you seem to suggest you have. I also don't view the game as unfinished, but that's not to say it's perfect.

To be fair, we are at very different points in the game. When Bungie hastily nerfs the Vex Mythoclast for PvP, but ends up making it bad in PvE, that's an issue. It's an issue where several exotics like Thorn and Pocket Infinity are now having 'unintended' problems. I never had bugs in the Vault of Glass until the Atheon teleport 'fix'. I don't know if these issues affect you, but they certainly are bothersome, especially when many are motivated by shortcomings to the investment system.

No, these problems haven't affected me personally - but most of these patches that have had these unintended affects have just been released. When you have a game with so many variables, like say Skyrim for example, sometimes patches make new mistakes that aren't seen until you have a hundred thousand testers (us) as opposed to a hundred in-house.

Hopefully these new issues that affect you are fixed soon, and in no way am I against pointing these kinds of problems out. But if you want a discussion and not just vent, I could communicate better with you if the posts weren't so loaded, for lack of a better word. :)

To me, investment systems can definitely be lazy, stupid game design, especially in mobile games I've seen people play, but Destiny's investment system just feels like an RPG to me. One that produces problems, but in certain players, not the game itself. It brings out the addicts, the competitors, and especially the impatient, to the point where they're quickly not having fun anymore and are just grinding. Then, instead of sharing about the fun they had that day with the game, or criticize what could be improved, they just vent and complain and act like the fact that they're still playing this shit game at all is a blessing to the developer. Luckily these folks don't hamper my enjoyment in-game. Only on the internet.

But other people can use the same investment system as a skeleton to adventure. To me, leveling and bounties are a make-your-own-mission. "Let's see... I'm going to do the Daily and while I do so I'll beat this boss on heroic, kill 20 enemies in close quarters, and get 100 headshots."

It makes me play the missions I've played a handful of times differently and in doing so, I find new ways to have fun that I wouldn't normally have because these "suggestions" make me change up my playstyle. Just like if I had to defend Captain Keyes in a room being stormed, I'd switch to my shotgun and play swift and fast to make sure no targets get in close to the Captain. With whatever bounties I have equipped, it has the same kind of effect. I load up my scout rifle to focus on headshots and beef up my armor and knife-throw-chains so I can take down the enemies in close quarters.

Afterwards, I go cash in the bounties and upgrade stuff. But it's just a neat little mission-end screen to me. It's not my point in playing. Of course, I hope we start to see new bounties and I'd love to see more variety in them now that I've played this batch for a while.

As for leveling gear, I've never worried about my Hard Light that I randomly got one day (I really can't remember where I got it). During these bounty adventures and strikes with friends, the gun has slowly been improving. Now that I've reached the last column, I have so much Ascendant Energy that I've gotten unintentionally over the weeks, Hard Light just keeps popping up in power with no grinding.

To me, investment systems can definitely be lazy, stupid game design, especially in mobile games I've seen people play, but Destiny's investment system just feels like an RPG to me.

It's not very RPG like. Have you played the original Deus Ex? It's a real RPG with FPS elements, and does everything from weapon procurement to character building better than Destiny, or really any other game. Destiny has MMORPG elements, and MMORPGs are bad games because the genre is bad.

Destiny's investment system is lazy because all it does is get in your way. Bungie could just as easily had bounties and strikes come up to suggest things for you to do, since you enjoy that, yet have it not be tied to acquiring exp, rep, ascendant materials, etc. I cannot think of a single thing in your post of elements you enjoy that could not have been done, and done BETTER without investment. You can still build your character and progress your gear.

Or to sum up your post: Most RPG devs figured this stuff out six years ago, but Bungie decided to go with extremely outdated WoW and Ultima mechanics.

To me, investment systems can definitely be lazy, stupid game design, especially in mobile games I've seen people play, but Destiny's investment system just feels like an RPG to me.

It's not very RPG like. Have you played the original Deus Ex? It's a real RPG with FPS elements, and does everything from weapon procurement to character building better than Destiny, or really any other game. Destiny has MMORPG elements, and MMORPGs are bad games because the genre is bad.

I don't think it's even possible to converse with such a structured statement, hah.

Destiny's investment system is lazy because all it does is get in your way. Bungie could just as easily had bounties and strikes come up to suggest things for you to do, since you enjoy that, yet have it not be tied to acquiring exp, rep, ascendant materials, etc. I cannot think of a single thing in your post of elements you enjoy that could not have been done, and done BETTER without investment. You can still build your character and progress your gear.

I don't know, as I've never had these investments get in my way. :/

Obviously thats just anecdotal, but Yeah

Well guess what? Folks just go afk now. Looks like people are queueing up into matchmaking, leaving, then coming back after 5 games and playing to redeem. I've gotten multiple afk teammates every match.

Just wondering, did you completely make this up?

It goes against my five-ish hour Iron Banner experience where I saw maybe one AFKer and it goes against the test I just ran where Destiny kicked me back to orbit after just over four minutes of inactivity* and it goes against our knowledge of Bungie building similar anti-AFKer systems into each of their games since at least Halo 3. So yeah, I have to wonder just how truthful you're being here...

Why is it I can solve this shit but Bungie can't?

Becasue huge, over exaggerated or just plain made up problem are easier to solve than small, minor legitimate ones?

*Interestingly, it kicked me directly after my second inactive death. The enemy team sorta ignored me since my initial spawn was a bit out of the way... My guess is it was more based on deaths without activity than just on time of inactivity and I might have been kicked sooner if the enemy hadn't looked straight at me and kept running but I'm not going to go back and test that for fear of having the automated systems mark me as a bad player. :)

played IB for probably 4 hours last night and not one AFK player. I did spawn into some games near the end where people had quit though.

There were a few people who dropped out here or there, but I didn't notice any AFK's, and most of the games I played were competitive, down to the wire thrillers.

Sorry about that, I thought you were running nightfall last night and not the iron banner or I would have jumped into your game. My bad!

Did the Nightfall, Weekly Heroic, Daily Heroic, HM Raid, and then a ton of IB. I'm pretty sure I spend more time on Destiny on Tuesdays then I do at my 8-5 job.

Hit me up when you play. I saw you were running in a group of 4 for a while. I had a group of 3 or I would have joined you guys.

Damn, Represent!

My guess is it was more based on deaths without activity than just on time of inactivity and I might have been kicked sooner if the enemy hadn't looked straight at me and kept running but I'm not going to go back and test that for fear of having the automated systems mark me as a bad player. :)

After playing with me so much, I'm sure they've already done that.

(Also, it sounds like freezing and pretending your AFK when you see an enemy a good defensive strategy, hah!)

My guess is it was more based on deaths without activity than just on time of inactivity and I might have been kicked sooner if the enemy hadn't looked straight at me and kept running but I'm not going to go back and test that for fear of having the automated systems mark me as a bad player. :)

After playing with me so much, I'm sure they've already done that.

(Also, it sounds like freezing and pretending your AFK when you see an enemy a good defensive strategy, hah!)

You saved my derriere a couple of times last night, so I wouldn't sell yourself too short there Mr. Gil.

No AFKs for me on PS4 last night in about 8 games. We did dominate one game to the point where four of the enemy team quit, but in all of our other games everything was down to the wire (that's not true - we got our asses handed to us in one game, but I'm blaming lag for that... There's no way my attack 300 Shadow Price can't kill a 27 with his back to me).

No AFKs for me on PS4 last night in about 8 games. We did dominate one game to the point where four of the enemy team quit, but in all of our other games everything was down to the wire (that's not true - we got our asses handed to us in one game, but I'm blaming lag for that... There's no way my attack 300 Shadow Price can't kill a 27 with his back to me).

I had this happen in a few games. I was averaging around a 1.25 K/D for most of the Iron Banner I played last night except for a few games that were lag fests. on those I went .5 or less as a level 30 with a 300 Suros. I WAS PISSED.

Obviously thats just anecdotal, but Yeah

I played last night and it I noticed zero. Maybe Bungie's detection kicked in? Either that or folks aren't doing it anymore. I'm guessing the pool is bigger now, and when it first launched it was a different crowd.

No AFKs for me on PS4 last night in about 8 games. We did dominate one game to the point where four of the enemy team quit, but in all of our other games everything was down to the wire (that's not true - we got our asses handed to us in one game, but I'm blaming lag for that... There's no way my attack 300 Shadow Price can't kill a 27 with his back to me).

I had this happen in a few games. I was averaging around a 1.25 K/D for most of the Iron Banner I played last night except for a few games that were lag fests. on those I went .5 or less as a level 30 with a 300 Suros. I WAS PISSED.

We were having some issues with that in our fireteam too. Raga seemed to get the brunt of it, but there were a couple of times I was ready to fire a controller at my TV.

Or I just got overly frustrated at it. I play good when I'm angry but I play even better when I'm happy so that was my bad. :(

- No text -