Apologies if this is a re-post; I don't read this board as often as I used to.

From IGN:

"This is apparently crucial as Ghost will now be more important in the game's story, offering lore when bits of the environment are scanned. Additionally, missions from the original Destiny are being reorganised to unlock along more logical quest lines. As a result, having someone on-call to re-record their lines if needs be was a high priority for the developer."

This was from their recent article about why Dinklebot is no longer Dinkle at all (link here).

Still, it was the first time I'd seen this. I wonder if this means they'll be following my "this order would make more sense" post from 8 months ago (basically do all of the black garden missions first, *then* unlock the side missions afterwards, with unrelated plot elements unlocking at the same time, but being much more clear about the flow of each side mission's arc. Or if they're doing something else entirely.

God willing they fix the "we've heard of [the Black Garden]" happening before we've actually heard of it, and the "You'll come back when you're ready" happening right before you come back to kill that guy. Apparently I was ready. Ugh.

Dialogue aside, I'd LOVE to see them really reorganize the missions so that things like mission 2 being mission 1 backwards just don't happen. Such awful design. If you want to reuse a level, you do so much later so that (a) it feels a bit nostalgic and (b) the player is much more powerful than when they were first there, which makes it exciting (I can triple jump now, so I can reach that platform I saw way back when!) etc..

It's weird to see my wish list for Destiny being checked off so thoroughly for TTK (though still no grimoire in the game!). What strikes me as strange as well is that, despite the *massive* changes to the entire game for TTK, Bungie has not yet admitted that they screwed up the 1.0 version, made some very poor choices, and released a game that was a regression from Halo by degrees in terms of both gameplay and story. I'm glad all of this is going in for 2.0, but I really am curious about how 1.0 even happened. Was the entire team drinking the Kool-Aid or is there some bizarre culture shift at Bungie where fun took a back seat to addiction? And of course I'm very very curious about the state of the game prior to the 1-year-out shakeup.

It's weird to see my wish list for Destiny being checked off so thoroughly for TTK (though still no grimoire in the game!). What strikes me as strange as well is that, despite the *massive* changes to the entire game for TTK, Bungie has not yet admitted that they screwed up the 1.0 version, made some very poor choices, and released a game that was a regression from Halo by degrees in terms of both gameplay and story.

I think they have admitted they messed up a lot of things in 1.0. But they don't think it was a complete waste.

I'm glad all of this is going in for 2.0, but I really am curious about how 1.0 even happened. Was the entire team drinking the Kool-Aid or is there some bizarre culture shift at Bungie where fun took a back seat to addiction? And of course I'm very very curious about the state of the game prior to the 1-year-out shakeup.

I honestly think that Bungie went into the whole FPS RPG with their full amount of zeal for creating something new. And they thought they had done a great job at it. But that they couldn't quite do what they completely wanted.

And it wasn't until we all got our hands on it that they realized that they aren't as good at RPG's as they thought.

The only thing they messed up, in my opinion, that they have always done good was the story. Everything else that Bungie has done well and they have done before they nailed.

It's now in 2.0 that they are able to polish and make this new frontier what they thought they could do in the first place.

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I think I'm going to create a separate account on my XB1 to play through these missions in the new order. I'm very interested in seeing how it feels this time around. I just don't want to delete my characters and lose all my stats to do it.

Hey Bungie, how about adding a 4th character slot just for this?

It's weird to see my wish list for Destiny being checked off so thoroughly for TTK (though still no grimoire in the game!). What strikes me as strange as well is that, despite the *massive* changes to the entire game for TTK, Bungie has not yet admitted that they screwed up the 1.0 version, made some very poor choices, and released a game that was a regression from Halo by degrees in terms of both gameplay and story.

I think they have admitted they messed up a lot of things in 1.0. But they don't think it was a complete waste.

Now, Luke never actually admitted that 1.0 was a flawed product (I don't like that word, fell short of the mark is probably better), but he used the phrase "There was opportunity for improvement" or something along those lines during the "100 questions about destiny in 6 minutes" video.

I really think they ran into another "Halo 2 problem", only a little worse. Massive engine overhaul combined with very ambitious goals for the product in a new 'genre' and it came in a lot hotter than they wanted, didn't have time for the spit and polish that we're starting to see now.

I just want a fourth character slot.

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I'm considering stealing one of my wife's unused character slots just to run through the original story again.

God willing they fix the "we've heard of [the Black Garden]" happening before we've actually heard of it

Unfortunately, I think in order to fix that they would have to actually re-write some of the dialog. The mission where that dialog occurs is the first mission on Venus, but the mission where they hint at the black garden is one of the other Venus missions. I'll be really happy if they redid a bit of dialog to fix that kind of stuff, but they said that they didn't change the Ghost dialog for Nolan North so I doubt that we'll see that drastic of a change.

That sounds like a good idea. Imagine if you had just done the Black Garden storyline missions only, in order, then finished the game. You'd now have all these side missions to do, and it would have alleviated the problem of having nothing to do at level 20. So you've beaten the game and you are level 20. Instead of having nothing new to do, you now have all the side missions to explore. This works out because your main narrative is 'done', and now it's just flavor and exploration. Doing the side missions always feels out of place while your narrative is going. If there is such an urgency to destroy the heart, why am I worrying about killing the Archon priest, or the Archon of the House of Winter, or Valus D'aruc?

A much better setup would have been having all the strikes and side missions open up when you hit level 20. Maybe that's what they are doing.

I think I'll do the reverse - start a new character on the PS4 to explore the story changes fresh.

I'm considering doing the same on my separate account.

I'm considering stealing one of my wife's unused character slots just to run through the original story again.

I'll probably just use my 6 year old daughter's account. She only plays Minecraft with Lil' Blue, so she won't care if I create her some characters. Her gamertag is pretty 6 year old girlish, so of course I'll accept all tower party invites just for the reactions.

That sounds like a good idea. Imagine if you had just done the Black Garden storyline missions only, in order, then finished the game. You'd now have all these side missions to do, and it would have alleviated the problem of having nothing to do at level 20. So you've beaten the game and you are level 20. Instead of having nothing new to do, you now have all the side missions to explore. This works out because your main narrative is 'done', and now it's just flavor and exploration. Doing the side missions always feels out of place while your narrative is going. If there is such an urgency to destroy the heart, why am I worrying about killing the Archon priest, or the Archon of the House of Winter, or Valus D'aruc?

I tried to do that with my warlock, the problem is the level of difficulty increase on the core missions is too great to keep up with much past the moon. You have to turn to other activities to get the exp you need to handle the next mission... Or maybe I just had this problem because I was trying to do them all on Hard... hmm. Either way, the level increase might be a problem. A fixable problem, but one none the less.

Agreed.

I really like how TDB implemented the strike into the story. I would like to see more narrative involved in tying strikes into the world of Destiny.

I wish the narrative story missions always left you ready for the next one.

Agreed. I always thought you got to level 20 at the end precisely because you finish all the side missions with the bonus XP. Never really put much thought into it, though...

God willing they fix the "we've heard of [the Black Garden]" happening before we've actually heard of it

Unfortunately, I think in order to fix that they would have to actually re-write some of the dialog. The mission where that dialog occurs is the first mission on Venus, but the mission where they hint at the black garden is one of the other Venus missions. I'll be really happy if they redid a bit of dialog to fix that kind of stuff, but they said that they didn't change the Ghost dialog for Nolan North so I doubt that we'll see that drastic of a change.

I got the impression that they were rewriting some of the dialogue to fit the new mission sequence.

That sounds like a good idea. Imagine if you had just done the Black Garden storyline missions only, in order, then finished the game. You'd now have all these side missions to do, and it would have alleviated the problem of having nothing to do at level 20. So you've beaten the game and you are level 20. Instead of having nothing new to do, you now have all the side missions to explore. This works out because your main narrative is 'done', and now it's just flavor and exploration. Doing the side missions always feels out of place while your narrative is going. If there is such an urgency to destroy the heart, why am I worrying about killing the Archon priest, or the Archon of the House of Winter, or Valus D'aruc?

A much better setup would have been having all the strikes and side missions open up when you hit level 20. Maybe that's what they are doing.

I completely agree. They'd have to re-balance everything, obviously, but finishing the main quest to then discover that each of the worlds you'd previously visited had double the number of missions available would have made the game feel so much bigger. Not to mention my utter confusion the first time I played through do the missions in the order in which they unlocked...

The plot of destiny, as quickly as I can recite it, in the order in which the missions unlocked:
We'll kill that archon when we're ready. Okay we're ready. Now find Rasputin! Urgent, everyone to the moon! There's a sword that we have to destroy. Warsat, yo! Come to Venus when you're ready. Remember that urgent thing about the moon? Okay you're ready for venus. Yeah, we've heard about the black garden. Stop the fallen from raising their archon! Hey, this archive mentions a thing called the "Black Garden" that I've never heard of before. Watch a 15 minute cutscene! Kill a gatelord. Mars knows about this black garden thing. Don't fight these guys until we know more about them. Okay fight them! Moar Warsat! Black garden! Here's a single mote of light. Okay here's a cool gun that's 4 levels below you.

Thanks for posting this. It's really interesting. But, please, could you tone down the negativity in your posts? Just a request, because I otherwise like what you post, and I find I skip your posts due to the unneeded Bungie bashing.

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In another piece (GI I think) mentioned two of the changes. First, when you do the first missions with Crota's Sword that opens up the Crota missions, second the reef opens up, and the HoW missions open up as soon as you visit the queen.

I'm not sure about side missions at all, or the core story stuff.

I for one look forward to the post detailing your results.

I'm considering stealing one of my wife's unused character slots just to run through the original story again.

I'll probably just use my 6 year old daughter's account. She only plays Minecraft with Lil' Blue, so she won't care if I create her some characters. Her gamertag is pretty 6 year old girlish, so of course I'll accept all tower party invites just for the reactions.

You can play with me and my "Coop Night" profile.

Just for the record, what they said was after you visit the Reef for the first time and talk to the Queen, the Reef opens up, as in the Vestian Outpost becomes available. They didn't actually say that the House of Wolves story missions open up. Unless they play with the required levels for those missions, you wouldn't be able to do them.

However, if they don't do that, one would have to question why the Vestian Outpost would be available at that point at all, as you could not do any of the activities there.

I hope they make the HoW missions available at that point, but they didn't actually say they were, unless it sneaked by me somewhere.

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...and then put my thoughts and opinions into a separate reply. I'm sorry that my personal feelings about the game bother you so much.

If that's what you need to do to tone it down, then please do. Thanks. However, you can use skills like tact to be less insulting. If your friend made a cake and you didn't like it, but she put her heart and soul into it, you wouldn't be so mean about it. You can talk about what you like and don't like about the game like a considerate person.

If that's what you need to do to tone it down, then please do. Thanks. However, you can use skills like tact to be less insulting. If your friend made a cake and you didn't like it, but she put her heart and soul into it, you wouldn't be so mean about it. You can talk about what you like and don't like about the game like a considerate person.

If I paid my friend $80 for that cake, I'd be pretty upset with my friend, too. I'm sorry that you think I'm not a considerate person. I happen to think that I have valid opinions and a right to be upset. It's okay, I'm taking steps to prevent this in the future by vowing never to pre-order again. Destiny is not the only game that hasn't lived up to the hype of late, and it won't be the last. It is, however, hugely disappointing to me to see a studio I have idolized for more than twenty years turn out to just be mortal after all. It's a huge blow. I hope you can understand that, even if you disagree with my opinions.

If I paid my friend $80 for that cake, I'd be pretty upset with my friend, too. I'm sorry that you think I'm not a considerate person. I happen to think that I have valid opinions and a right to be upset. It's okay, I'm taking steps to prevent this in the future by vowing never to pre-order again. Destiny is not the only game that hasn't lived up to the hype of late, and it won't be the last. It is, however, hugely disappointing to me to see a studio I have idolized for more than twenty years turn out to just be mortal after all. It's a huge blow. I hope you can understand that, even if you disagree with my opinions.

You know what, Quentin Tarantino has a "never hate a movie" philosophy. You can not like a movie, but don't HATE it.

I think the same applies to video games, and I realized that there are games that were far worse than Destiny that I simply didn't like. Destiny was the only one that had aspects I outright HATED. Now I just see them as not for me.

Much more healthy an attitude.

I shall try.

If that's what you need to do to tone it down, then please do. Thanks. However, you can use skills like tact to be less insulting. If your friend made a cake and you didn't like it, but she put her heart and soul into it, you wouldn't be so mean about it. You can talk about what you like and don't like about the game like a considerate person.

If I paid my friend $80 for that cake, I'd be pretty upset with my friend, too. I'm sorry that you think I'm not a considerate person. I happen to think that I have valid opinions and a right to be upset. It's okay, I'm taking steps to prevent this in the future by vowing never to pre-order again. Destiny is not the only game that hasn't lived up to the hype of late, and it won't be the last. It is, however, hugely disappointing to me to see a studio I have idolized for more than twenty years turn out to just be mortal after all. It's a huge blow. I hope you can understand that, even if you disagree with my opinions.

They've always been mortal. You assuming they weren't isn't their fault.

After the big blow up here the other week I've heard talk of watching out for the negativity police--the implication being that we can't be negative and express negative opinions about aspects of Destiny. That's never been the case.

What has been the case is that frequent posters have been gratuitous in their negativity, expressing the same points ad nauseam and seldom missing an opportunity to infect a thread or post with snarky comments about the game, presenting their judgments as indisputable facts by virtue of their repetition (and in some regard that's felt true). It's not a matter of the rest of us not having the courage of our convictions that this persistent negativity affects the tone of the forum. We're social creatures, and we're inevitably affected by who we hang around. Sometimes I think fans who stopped posting had the right idea, but what's weird is this is a fan site, not a grousers site. The grousers are the ones who usually move on.

If that's what you need to do to tone it down, then please do. Thanks. However, you can use skills like tact to be less insulting. If your friend made a cake and you didn't like it, but she put her heart and soul into it, you wouldn't be so mean about it. You can talk about what you like and don't like about the game like a considerate person.

If I paid my friend $80 for that cake, I'd be pretty upset with my friend, too. I'm sorry that you think I'm not a considerate person. I happen to think that I have valid opinions and a right to be upset. It's okay, I'm taking steps to prevent this in the future by vowing never to pre-order again. Destiny is not the only game that hasn't lived up to the hype of late, and it won't be the last. It is, however, hugely disappointing to me to see a studio I have idolized for more than twenty years turn out to just be mortal after all. It's a huge blow. I hope you can understand that, even if you disagree with my opinions.

They've always been mortal. You assuming they weren't isn't their fault.

After the big blow up here the other week I've heard talk of watching out for the negativity police--the implication being that we can't be negative and express negative opinions about aspects of Destiny. That's never been the case.

What has been the case is that frequent posters have been gratuitous in their negativity, expressing the same points ad nauseam and seldom missing an opportunity to infect a thread or post with snarky comments about the game, presenting their judgments as indisputable facts by virtue of their repetition (and in some regard that's felt true). It's not a matter of the rest of us not having the courage of our convictions that this persistent negativity affects the tone of the forum. We're social creatures, and we're inevitably affected by who we hang around. Sometimes I think fans who stopped posting had the right idea, but what's weird is this is a fan site, not a grousers site. The grousers are the ones who usually move on.

What was the big blow up? I've seen this mentioned a few times but have no idea what people are referencing.

I've been called out a few times as a negative poster, but I swear that I really try not to be. I'm still very much a fan of Bungie's body of work, overall, and where I get into negativity is more to do with setting up comparisons in my mind of their past games to their current. I have also had several negative experiences with Destiny at the hands of the RNG which, when I described them here, some people called "so statistically improbable as to be impossible." Well, those people are wrong, because they happened to me. I feel that I have every right to discuss my experience with the game as the next forum user. Think on it this way: Elements of the game are designed such that for every lucky player who is having loads of fun getting new gear, there is an equally unlucky player having significantly less fun not getting new gear. If those two people talk about their experiences with the game, the first player will love it (what's not to love!? Everything is great!) The second player (me, sadly) will have had a totally different experience and thereby feel differently about the game.***

***caveat: TTK is reportedly fixing RNG loot issues with smarter RNG rolls with bias towards different sorts of gear than what you've received prior, and upgrades to what you're wearing. I am SO excited for this change.

Now, I am getting cautiously optimistic about TTK. The changes sound like someone reading a list right off of this here forum of things we wanted to see changed in the game. It sounds great. So I've started checking these forums again. And posting again. But my experience of Destiny to date has not magically changed into something positive. It is not a game I'm playing right now. It ceased to be fun for me. I would like TTK to be as good as it sounds so that I can get back to space magicking with my friends and having fun in a fascinating Bungie-world again. I still wish that every FPS I ever played handled as well as Destiny does. But handling alone do not a car make.

Perhaps some of my upset comes from the fact that Destiny has so much incredible potential. The grimoire cards are awesome and the game itself is really only a small slice of the meat that lies therein. I know Bungie can do it. I've seen them do it. Halo? Marathon? Even PiD had a really cool story. Let me be clear: I am rooting for Bungie.

But in my mind, team Destiny is down several points. The coach is saying all the right things to the sideline reporter, so I hope they get some good plays in with TTK. The time is right, and the season isn't over yet.

What was the big blow up? I've seen this mentioned a few times but have no idea what people are referencing.

Cody's goodbye post. Not looking it up. Had a few things to say related to that that fit with my response to you, but don't want to rehash anything.

I've been called out a few times as a negative poster, but I swear that I really try not to be. I'm still very much a fan of Bungie's body of work, overall, and where I get into negativity is more to do with setting up comparisons in my mind of their past games to their current.

My disappointments with Destiny have dissipated as I've connected the dots between how they described Destiny and what Destiny is. Most of the distortion came from me.

I have also had several negative experiences with Destiny at the hands of the RNG which, when I described them here, some people called "so statistically improbable as to be impossible." Well, those people are wrong, because they happened to me. I feel that I have every right to discuss my experience with the game as the next forum user. Think on it this way: Elements of the game are designed such that for every lucky player who is having loads of fun getting new gear, there is an equally unlucky player having significantly less fun not getting new gear. If those two people talk about their experiences with the game, the first player will love it (what's not to love!? Everything is great!) The second player (me, sadly) will have had a totally different experience and thereby feel differently about the game.***

Guess what? I'm both players. My luck with loot has been way different on the PS4 than it's been on the Xbox. Oddly enough, some of the best times I've had has been with the Deeply Flawed Raiders, who are basically my PS4 crew. Not as many easy-button weapons, so I've had to get creative. I don't actually think Bungie intended to have any easy buttons in their game. Easy-button weapons become less fun after a time.

***caveat: TTK is reportedly fixing RNG loot issues with smarter RNG rolls with bias towards different sorts of gear than what you've received prior, and upgrades to what you're wearing. I am SO excited for this change.

Now, I am getting cautiously optimistic about TTK. The changes sound like someone reading a list right off of this here forum of things we wanted to see changed in the game. It sounds great. So I've started checking these forums again. And posting again. But my experience of Destiny to date has not magically changed into something positive. It is not a game I'm playing right now. It ceased to be fun for me. I would like TTK to be as good as it sounds so that I can get back to space magicking with my friends and having fun in a fascinating Bungie-world again. I still wish that every FPS I ever played handled as well as Destiny does. But handling alone do not a car make.

Good that you're playing other stuff. AND there are people who like Destiny much more than you do who are still playing Destiny, and that's good, too.

Perhaps some of my upset comes from the fact that Destiny has so much incredible potential. The grimoire cards are awesome and the game itself is really only a small slice of the meat that lies therein. I know Bungie can do it. I've seen them do it. Halo? Marathon? Even PiD had a really cool story. Let me be clear: I am rooting for Bungie.

Destiny does have tremendous potential, and like you, I had disappointments with the story, but here's the shift: I had big expectations for year one Destiny. I now think Bungie is thinking bigger than I ever was, but not in the same time frame.

What was the big blow up? I've seen this mentioned a few times but have no idea what people are referencing.

here you are.

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Ugh, the story is such a mess. Thankfully the game itself is very fun to play.

Wow. Kinda glad I missed that one. I'm going to spend the rest of today just deciding if I should read more of it.

Nothing really new there. Though, to be fair, I only read half that thread.

Reading the "I Feel Old" thread instead. SO GOOD!