Your idea and why it sucks

by narcogen , Andover, Massachusetts, Monday, June 03, 2013, 23:30 (4189 days ago) @ Cody Miller

This is not true and you are missing the point. If your work ADDS something to the original it's worthwhile, either by extending the original with your own insight, applying it in a new way, or negating it.

That is ONE way to employ a reference. It is not the one, true way. The use of this reference in this context achieves a lot of goals. It connects this fictional universe to our real one by marking a point of commonality. It says that children in that world are read the same bedtime stories as people in our world in the past have been told, and that the lessons are applicable in that world-- not just within the fictional world those characters inhabit, but within the gameplay context that players will experience within that world.

So what are we talking about again? You brought up the casting. But now you're not going to criticize it? Which is it? Maybe they thought he was right for the part? Equal amounts threatening and avuncular? Someone with a distinctive voice? I'm still really not sure what you're getting at, except to say that if they wanted somebody like him, they should have just cast somebody like him, but not actually him, because of course to hire an A list TV actor is putting on airs.

I like his casting… he does have a good voice for reading this. That's awesome. I'm talking about Jon Favreau.

You're being a snob, pure and simple. You're essentially saying that Bungie is casting talent out of its pay grade by hiring a good actor and a good director to do a TV commercial for a game that you don't think is worthy. Which is ridiculous, since Favreau is best known for pop entertainment: two out of three good Iron Man flicks, Zathura, which I liked, and Cowboys and Aliens, which was dreck.

Isn't that validating my point, where even the name they could get is in your opinion only capable of pop entertainment and dreck?

No, it's completely undermining your point. Your point was that Bungie is overreaching. You cited the reputation of Jon Favreau as evidence of that overreaching. I pointed out that both Bungie and Favreau basically produce popular commercial art. I see no overreaching.

Also let me remind you of the shitty job Laura Prepon did in Halo 2 as a marine.

I disagree completely and wholeheartedly.

http://halo.bungie.org/misc/h2dialogue/marine_sassy/marinesassy01_20070724.mp3

That's your idea of not bad?

That might not be the best line reading I've ever heard, but no, within the context of the game I did not have any problem with that reading. Did you? If so, what was it? The thread keeps getting vaguer and vaguer.

That the industry is itself going through certain transitions, and has individuals in it who aspire for their creations to be classified more as high art than commercial art, is one thing. To come to the conclusion that an increase in budgets and production values amounts to delusions of grandeur is quite another, and I would say is unsubstantiated, especially when you try and lump in Bungie's literary references as well, which is a trend that has been going on for far, far longer.

Where exactly did I say that more production value and budgets is delusions of grandeur? Properly applied, that's actually how you get a better game.

Where above do I attribute any of that to you? That is what I am saying. The accusations of delusions of grandeur are what you are alleging, and one does not substantiate the other. Neither does the employment of Jon Favreau or a quote from Kipling.

Bungie's old references were fine, since the focus was on the game and the story was a fun backdrop to play around in. The fun was deciphering the story, and in that regard references can be fun because it's like a clue of sorts. The marathon story was not a masterpiece of literature, but it was a masterpiece of video game fiction, and that comes from deciphering and discovering its secrets. I can't remember Bungie ever hyping up Marathon through literary references or by hiring a name to direct a commercial. In fact most of Bungie's ads for marathon were pretty crass Actually.

Bungie was pretty small and had limited resources. Advertising on television or even Internet videos were basically out of the question. Marathon's story was text only because it had to be. Later games have employed audiovisuals in the telling of the story. On what basis would anyone expect or desire Bungie to maintain some kind of artificial wall where references to one work should remain completely within the work itself, and not within promotional materials when possible?

I really don't think you've got a point here at all. You're railing at something, and I'm still not sure what, and every time I've asked or speculated about it in the thread, you've avoided it completely.

At any rate, I don't think I have any more to say on it.