No Wu, that's not an idea. That's status quo. While it is fine that you enjoy it, it also means little to what I ask. Feels like a dodge to me. You could have said nothing on this point, and it would be the same result.

How is that a dodge? Sometimes the status quo is actually fine. Using DIM is a perfectly valid solution to the problem. On the whole, I’m not convinced that it’s not the best one. Organizing and sorting and loadouts will always be better with a mouse, period. I do not believe any solution Bungie comes up with would be better than just using DIM. I think to call that dodging the question is kind of silly. Bungie solved the problem by letting someone else handle it.

You disagree with that, and that’s fine, but I don’t think it’s fair to say that Claude thinking it’s currently fine is somehow a problem.

Will speak of this more in response on Wu's post below.

I have absolutely no idea what you're asking with regard to exotics. Can you rephrase your question?

I'd like to clarify my original question instead, hopefully you don't mind.

The original question I asked was; do exotic weapons suffer from the same issue? Why or why not? The context of "the same issue" being about organization through the game interface. To further clarify; "organization" ultimately means in this case "What in this gun makes it worth using over something else?"

Isn’t the answer to that obvious? Exotics are by their nature completely distinct, and there aren’t that many of them in the grand scheme. It’s not difficult to remember which ones do which special things.

It’s much more difficult to remember why I have six Trusts. The only way to make that more easy to remember is getting rid of random rolls, and they tried that already.

BOOM! Yes! EXACTLY! I wanted to read some one else saying the words "It’s not difficult to remember". I wanted to be sure it wasn't just me. Thank you cheapLEY.

This example is exactly how proper organization in-game would fix the bloat problem sunsetting is supposed fix, but without all the nonsense sunsetting has brought. Shall continue to bring, even. Know your tools for which you wield! How many of you with wood based workshops have all your kit laying in a cluttered pile on the floor? Or does it look (in some way) like this...?

Side track for a moment; Keep inmind there are millions of people playing this game with new "kinderguardians" coming in (apparently) all the time. We, the hardcore fanbase & Bungie, expect each of them to go on D.I.M? Or any OTHER of the fantastic third party options? Where are they supposed to find that out? To a external third party? If they have the means then sure I suppose, they will find out through search and use it, but it just feels wrong. You can not expect an end user to do that! To care that much. To turn that play into effort to play. That is not a solid user experience in my view. Hopefully not just my view.

As I said, I sidetracked. Back to ... "This is exactly being able to organize would fix."

In Destiny, we have (or at least had) many hundreds of legendary guns. For what purpose? Why? Well, the direct answer is loot and the chase of this and that. But what if I bring that question of guns into context of our vaults? Why? For what purpose? For what ends do I hold this for? For me, I can not speak to how many times I've asked myself this question as I tried to root out what I could get rid of in the unwilling rats nest that is my vault. Upon the process of all this, I've come to a realization after playing this game for so long. I know when I get something and I look at those stats and perks; keep or shard. Shard is easy, out of sight and mind.

Keep through? Oh... keep is a pain in the ass. I'll know in that moment why I want to keep something, but I also know I will forget. Alas, Destiny doesn't do post-it notes.

So... cheapLEY doesn't have this issue I'm about to mention (seeing as he is the smartest Destiny player in the forum), but the lot of us probably have multiple weapons in our vaults that are basically the same weapon in use case. The DPS. The add clear. So on. Why? What differentiates one weapon from another? What makes it worth keeping? Figuring such things out is a pain, as to solve it requires a person to stop playing the game, and sort all of it out. And suddenly this game about amazing gun play and momentary power fantasies, is suddenly about spreadsheets and grade calls. (No offense for those of you who are all about the spreadsheet life.)

Or hey! You can just forgo all that, not care, and shoot with whatever. As possible as that is, I don't think that is how this game was built to be played. There is alot of hard work put into the little nuances of this games play, and I'd like to appreciate it, if the game didn't fight the ability to do so in such an amount sometimes.

We're so far apart on this it's not worth the discussion.

... Again: I'm not looking for vague "I want to do this" - you clearly think that this is a thing you should be able to do, in-game. I'm not asking you to program it - I'm asking you what it would look like. I, personally, cannot envision ANY system that I could manage with a controller that would make me happy. You clearly have other ideas, and I would love to hear them.

To do such justice would require time to create a proper mock up, much like was seen for the Ghost UI we have now (which as I recall was a suggestion posted from the Destiny subreddit). TL;DR maybe after 2020. Maybe. That said, I can speak of both one small remedy I currently use (that's mildly expensive to do), an observation, and a complement.

• If I want to remember that "X" weapon is best within PvE or PvP, for whatever it is, I'll masterwork it up to the point where I get the enemy counter. I'll then label it PvP or PvE.
  
• What buttons do you use and don't you use when looking at the gun menu? How about the screen real estate?
  
• Within the game, one of the best UI upgrades Bungie has done is the tool tip that you can get if you hover over a weapon or armor which expands out over when you press the trigger in the character menu.

Not sure how this is relevant to the discussion, but you asked, I'll answer:

I use 2 buttons when examining a gun. (I have no idea what you mean by 'gun menu', so I'm hoping that this is what you're talking about.) I use Y, to get details on the gun, left trigger (right trigger for most of you) to view details on the gun, or right trigger (left trigger for most of you) to compare it to the currently equipped gun. Those all work as I expect them to, I don't have any complaints. I do not have need for gun info that is not displayed by these three buttons (except to do things that cannot be done in-game, like compare the current character's version of a particular weapon to similar weapons on other characters or in my vault).

Uh... it was not a direct question. What you had asked of me required more effort then I was able to give in the moment (which is still the case), but I still wanted to give something. Hence my quick and admittedly vague, fill-in-the-blank bullet points in give an idea to just a little of what I see.

TO which I shall add this; Contextual menus. After all, we already have a mouse.

If you disagree with that, than please bring better ideas. This may help, here is a question I've not seen asked (and even alluded to in my post); do exotic weapons suffer from the same issue? Why or why not?

I told you my 'better idea' - it's to use a mouse and keyboard, and an interface built for them, to do the organizing. It works really well for me. It isn't in-game, and in fact (the way I want it to work) cannot be - and I'm okay with that.

No Wu, that's not an idea. That's status quo. While it is fine that you enjoy it, it also means little to what I ask. Feels like a dodge to me. You could have said nothing on this point, and it would be the same result.

This is utterly unfair of you. You made a statement: "The best way to do that is in the game." You followed that statement up with a request: "If you disagree with that, than [sic] please bring better ideas."

You cannot come back after the fact and tell me that if I want the status quo, I shouldn't have responded - I do not agree with your statement, so I will not remain silent, because I think the status quo is better than your idea.

You clearly aren't happy with the status quo - but it is not reasonable of you to suggest that others might have a different opinion.

BUT THAT IS ALREADY A GIVEN WU! Your explanation is circular logic! I'm asking for something new, not the same! THAT IS WHY WE'RE IN THIS BRANCH IN HE FIRST PLACE! You have already established you disagree. To respond again with the same thing is simply silly. You added nothing to the discussion, and only aided to prolonging it for no reason.

I should add, as cheapLEY says in his direct response to me, "Sometimes the status quo is actually fine". And I agree! But in this case you'd have to show the person who states otherwise (should they be rational) how what they propose would be worse then things already are. Rebutting in essence "but I like it" is not a response, or even an idea.

That said... I will concur where if you interpreted it literately word for word, the phrase "If you disagree with that, than please bring better ideas" is potentially errant if one has none to give, as there is "none to give". The "it's fine the way it is". To that end though, I have to wonder why we speak at all, if those whom I speak to lack even a little imagination so that perfection is already attained. What a boring conversation.

I have absolutely no idea what you're asking with regard to exotics. Can you rephrase your question?

I'd like to clarify my original question instead, hopefully you don't mind.

The original question I asked was; do exotic weapons suffer from the same issue? Why or why not? The context of "the same issue" being about organization through the game interface. To further clarify; "organization" ultimately means in this case "What in this gun makes it worth using over something else?"

Does that help?

Not really, no. I don't really understand what you're looking for, here. Are you asking whether I feel like it's easy to figure out what makes an exotic special, in-game? (It is; I just mouse over the icon. If the summary provided there isn't enough, I can hit Y for a more complete description.)

Are you asking whether I'd benefit from some sort of tool that told me "here are all the exotics you have (either on this character or in the vault, I guess) that affect melees on the current character" - sure, that would be spectacular. I don't think there's any way to do that in-game, using a controller, that would give me the fine-grained control I'd like if it were implemented, though; either it would be too blunt a tool (maybe it would tell me melee-related, but then what if I wanted to sort by element?) or it would be too hard to use, given the constraints of the tool.

Are you asking something else?

I'm sorry - I'm not trying to be obtuse; I seriously don't get what you're asking.

I killed the rest because we're clearly talking different languages when it comes to weapons like Mountaintop, and things that you're assuming are absolute fact are, in fact, things I consider opinions that I disagree with strongly. We're so far apart on this it's not worth the discussion.

Shame, but not surprising considering the often fatiguing nature of preaching philosophy on the internet. Especially in this year. Just don't make the mistake on the thinking preached as my gospel, as it is not. It was made per the confines and needs of the scenario built. The what if. Do not let it weigh your mind of me, should it at all.

I'm sorry this discussion came upon such extreme for you. Apologies.

As for the exotic stuff... well what do you know! Let's check out my response to cheapLEYs post! You inadvertently linked each other! :D