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What Control? An Update. (Gaming)

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| \[T]/, Wednesday, January 27, 2021, 11:50 (40 days ago)

I'm not sure I've ever laughed so hard for something so... just, wow. WOW! wow! Wow.

... wow.

Back in August 2020, I made a thread about the publisher skullfuckery involving "Control: Ultimate Edition". Quick refresher; Instead of passing on the upgrades for free in the base game at launch, it would only be the case if you bought this new "Ultimate Edition" version of the game. Again, it was announced that there would be no free upgrade to the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X/S versions for those who bought the base game on PS4 or Xbox One.

Got it? Good. Now for the update part of this update post. Playstation folks, have you seen what you get for "FREE" with PlayStation Plus in February? Yes. YES! That's right!

Need I say more? And can I get an "F" in comments for the poor sods on Playstation who bought this game twice and didn't need to?

What Control? An Update.

by Claude Errera @, Wednesday, January 27, 2021, 12:09 (40 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I'm not sure I've ever laughed so hard for something so... just, wow. WOW! wow! Wow.

... wow.

Back in August 2020, I made a thread about the publisher skullfuckery involving "Control: Ultimate Edition". Quick refresher; Instead of passing on the upgrades for free in the base game at launch, it would only be the case if you bought this new "Ultimate Edition" version of the game. Again, it was announced that there would be no free upgrade to the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X/S versions for those who bought the base game on PS4 or Xbox One.

Got it? Good. Now for the update part of this update post. Playstation folks, have you seen what you get for "FREE" with PlayStation Plus in February? Yes. YES! That's right!

Need I say more? And can I get an "F" in comments for the poor sods on Playstation who bought this game twice and didn't need to?

I'm a tiny bit lost; the game's been out since August, and the next-gen consoles have been out for 2 months. Don't prices ALWAYS drop eventually? Is it really so shocking that value-added services like Playstation Plus would eventually offer what cost money before?

I suppose the FAQ saying "there won't be an upgrade path to next-gen content unless you buy Ultimate" is what you're talking about... but I'm sure someone with a better finger on the gaming pulse than I have could come up with a list of games that suggested you needed to buy X to get Y, and then have X offered for free at some point in the future on either Playstation Plus or Gamepass... I dunno. This is annoying, but not even remotely surprising.

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What Control? An Update.

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Thursday, January 28, 2021, 17:21 (38 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I was surprised to see it on Game pass so quickly, but having it be the free game does seem VERY fast (but I just took that to be a sign it did not sell well and Playstation is trying to buy back some goodwill from the players.)

I take Insane's point about telling people that they need to re-buy a special edition to get the PS5 upgrade, and then the game is available free before the PS5 version is even released (buy a couple days, but still). I would slot this one under the "never pre-order games" lesson example bin. (Even if the pre-order was a feature of the existing game)

What Control? An Update.

by Claude Errera @, Thursday, January 28, 2021, 18:17 (38 days ago) @ Vortech

I was surprised to see it on Game pass so quickly, but having it be the free game does seem VERY fast (but I just took that to be a sign it did not sell well and Playstation is trying to buy back some goodwill from the players.)

I take Insane's point about telling people that they need to re-buy a special edition to get the PS5 upgrade, and then the game is available free before the PS5 version is even released (buy a couple days, but still). I would slot this one under the "never pre-order games" lesson example bin. (Even if the pre-order was a feature of the existing game)

That's definitely crappy. If the free version was available (or known to be free) before the PS5 version was released, couldn't you cancel your preorder and save the cash?

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, January 28, 2021, 18:22 (38 days ago) @ Claude Errera

That's definitely crappy. If the free version was available (or known to be free) before the PS5 version was released, couldn't you cancel your preorder and save the cash?

No, because that’s not how they handled the release. The Ultimate Edition was available for purchase and download like six months ago. It’s just the game with the two DLCs included, and it was the last gen version of the game. They just decided the Ultimate Edition is the only one that will get a next gen upgrade, while the people that bought the game at release plus the two DLCs at more than twice the price of the Ultimate Edition can go fuck themselves.

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, January 28, 2021, 18:18 (38 days ago) @ Vortech

I was surprised to see it on Game pass so quickly, but having it be the free game does seem VERY fast (but I just took that to be a sign it did not sell well and Playstation is trying to buy back some goodwill from the players.)

I take Insane's point about telling people that they need to re-buy a special edition to get the PS5 upgrade, and then the game is available free before the PS5 version is even released (buy a couple days, but still). I would slot this one under the "never pre-order games" lesson example bin. (Even if the pre-order was a feature of the existing game)

My understanding is that the version on Game Pass is not the Ultimate Edition and this will not be the Series X version.

I’m disappointed in the way they handled this. I own the game and both DLCs. I own everything in the Ultimate Edition, I just paid more money for it earlier. It’s a real slap in the face.

On the other hand, it was an amazing game that I do not regret spending the money on. I would gladly pay like ten bucks to grade my version for Series X, but I’m not paying $40 to rebuy the whole thing.

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What Control? An Update.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, January 29, 2021, 08:02 (38 days ago) @ Vortech

I was surprised to see it on Game pass so quickly, but having it be the free game does seem VERY fast (but I just took that to be a sign it did not sell well and Playstation is trying to buy back some goodwill from the players.)

I take Insane's point about telling people that they need to re-buy a special edition to get the PS5 upgrade, and then the game is available free before the PS5 version is even released (buy a couple days, but still). I would slot this one under the "never pre-order games" lesson example bin. (Even if the pre-order was a feature of the existing game)

Their timing sucks. The initial complaint from many of us wasn't that we had pre-ordered anything, but that we had just bought the game (on sale) weeks before it was announced another version would have to be purchased to get the upgrade. The lack of an alternative upgrade path was always the issue for me.

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What Control? An Update.

by Vortech @, A Fourth Wheel, Friday, January 29, 2021, 13:52 (37 days ago) @ Kermit

Yeah I guess calling it pre-ordering was misleading, but in a game with no multiplayer component I am aware of, if what someone really wanted was the PS5/XSX version but you bought the game before that version was out, that has all the same characteristics as a preorder, right?

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What Control? An Update.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, January 29, 2021, 14:27 (37 days ago) @ Vortech

Yeah I guess calling it pre-ordering was misleading, but in a game with no multiplayer component I am aware of, if what someone really wanted was the PS5/XSX version but you bought the game before that version was out, that has all the same characteristics as a preorder, right?

Why are people assuming a free upgrade will actually happen? When has there ever been precedent for this? I didn’t expect to get the PS4 shadow of the colossus just because I have it on PS3.

Some companies like CDPR may have said they would, but this seems like the minority position?

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What Control? An Update.

by ZackDark @, Not behind you. NO! Don't look., Friday, January 29, 2021, 14:43 (37 days ago) @ Cody Miller

The vast majority of One -> Series games are, aren't they?

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Friday, January 29, 2021, 14:51 (37 days ago) @ Cody Miller

You’re aware of this little game called Destiny 2, right?

No Man’s Sky did it. Hitman 3 did it. Warhammer Vermintide did it. Assassin’s Creed Valhalla did it. The Division 2. The new Ori game. Forza Horizon 4. Watch Dogs Legion. Even fucking EA did it with Star Wars Squadrons. There’s a bunch more that I’m too lazy to list. Look up Xbox Smart Delivery.

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What Control? An Update.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, January 29, 2021, 15:16 (37 days ago) @ cheapLEY

You’re aware of this little game called Destiny 2, right?

The one that's FREE TO PLAY? Lol of course they'd give you the PS5 version for free!

Okay so smart delivery is a thing, but what on the PS side is equivalent to that?

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This, I suppose.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, January 29, 2021, 15:28 (37 days ago) @ Cody Miller

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/upgrade-ps4-game-to-ps5-version/

There's not a ton of new games this generation, so both backward compatibility and free upgrades have been pushed by both.

Enough so that though it may have been foolish to assume you'd get a free upgrade, it wasn't foolish to think it was likely this late in the cycle.

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This, I suppose.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, January 29, 2021, 20:40 (37 days ago) @ Kermit

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/upgrade-ps4-game-to-ps5-version/

There's not a ton of new games this generation, so both backward compatibility and free upgrades have been pushed by both.

Enough so that though it may have been foolish to assume you'd get a free upgrade, it wasn't foolish to think it was likely this late in the cycle.

Ah okay. I had no idea it was this widespread.

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Friday, January 29, 2021, 15:43 (37 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by cheapLEY, Friday, January 29, 2021, 16:01

I think most of the games that use Smart Delivery on Xbox also give you the next gen version on the Playstation side, it’s just not an automatic process like it is on Xbox. Meaning, on Xbox it just downloads the appropriate version based on which generation console, whereas on PS5, you can still download the backwards compatible PS4 version of an upgraded game.

I don’t actually have the breakdown of every game in front of me, but it sure seems like it’s more common to just give you the next gen version if there is one available. Control is the only one I know of off the top of my head that makes you buy the new version. I think Madden had a limited window where it was available for free like was pretty common last gen.

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What Control? An Update.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, January 29, 2021, 20:42 (37 days ago) @ cheapLEY

I think most of the games that use Smart Delivery on Xbox also give you the next gen version on the Playstation side, it’s just not an automatic process like it is on Xbox. Meaning, on Xbox it just downloads the appropriate version based on which generation console, whereas on PS5, you can still download the backwards compatible PS4 version of an upgraded game.

I don’t actually have the breakdown of every game in front of me, but it sure seems like it’s more common to just give you the next gen version if there is one available. Control is the only one I know of off the top of my head that makes you buy the new version. I think Madden had a limited window where it was available for free like was pretty common last gen.

The biggest problem for me (and I realize this is incredibly niche), is that there is digital to digital upgrade, disc to digital upgrade, but no disc to disc.

So for me, I'd be buying it again anyway since there seems no other way to get it on a disc. I gotta hand it to these companies: they will probably be successful in killing of physical game media if disk space can keep up.

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, January 30, 2021, 06:16 (37 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I actually wonder if that works. I’ve I stick the Xbox One disc version of Assassin’s Creed Valhalla in my Series X, what happens? Clearly if you’re offline, it’ll install the old version. But if you’re connected, I wonder if you’ll be able to download the Series X version. I bought Valhalla digitally in my One X. When I upgraded, I literally could not use that version, it made me download the Series X version. It just gave me the “This game needs an update” screen when I tried to launch it.

What Control? An Update.

by EffortlessFury @, Saturday, January 30, 2021, 10:37 (37 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Via the FAQ, relevant detail underlined by me:

How do I know if I bought the right disc?

If you bought a Smart Delivery game, all of its discs will work and you will get the best available version of the game for your Xbox Series X and Xbox One consoles. Many Smart Delivery games will have the Smart Delivery icon the upper right corner on the front of the game case and “Smart Delivery” listed on the back of game case. Some games that were released on Xbox One prior to the Xbox Series X console release, like Gears 5 for example, may have older game cases that do not include the Smart Delivery icon. The Xbox One disc will still work in an Xbox Series X and Smart Delivery will provide you with the best available version.

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Saturday, January 30, 2021, 11:17 (37 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

Thank you! I was too lazy to try and find that info.

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What Control? An Update.

by Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) ⌂ @, Detroit, Saturday, January 30, 2021, 14:33 (36 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Some companies like CDPR may have said they would, but this seems like the minority position?

I know you don't really follow the topic but it is industry standard for both XB and PS. Hence the outcry.

P.S.: Discs work, too! :)

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What Control? An Update.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Saturday, January 30, 2021, 22:31 (36 days ago) @ Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)

P.S.: Discs work, too! :)

So if I have a disc version, then I can for free get the disc version of the next gen? From what is indicated having the disc just lets your download the next gen version.

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What Control? An Update.

by Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) ⌂ @, Detroit, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 02:08 (36 days ago) @ Cody Miller

P.S.: Discs work, too! :)


So if I have a disc version, then I can for free get the disc version of the next gen? From what is indicated having the disc just lets your download the next gen version.

No, it just recognizes the game, and plays whatever console version you're playing on. The discs are multi-generational.

What Control? An Update.

by EffortlessFury @, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 05:29 (36 days ago) @ Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)

P.S.: Discs work, too! :)


So if I have a disc version, then I can for free get the disc version of the next gen? From what is indicated having the disc just lets your download the next gen version.


No, it just recognizes the game, and plays whatever console version you're playing on. The discs are multi-generational.

It doesn't "just play" the version; if you're on a Series X, presumably you have to download the whole Series X version from the internet. Granted, AFAIK, if you're offline you can still install and play the original disc version through back-compat but I'm not sure.

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What Control? An Update.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 08:18 (36 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

P.S.: Discs work, too! :)


So if I have a disc version, then I can for free get the disc version of the next gen? From what is indicated having the disc just lets your download the next gen version.


No, it just recognizes the game, and plays whatever console version you're playing on. The discs are multi-generational.


It doesn't "just play" the version; if you're on a Series X, presumably you have to download the whole Series X version from the internet. Granted, AFAIK, if you're offline you can still install and play the original disc version through back-compat but I'm not sure.

This is my question.

Is the next gen version and all assets/code on the disc, or is it just retrieving a newer version digitally to play?

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What Control? An Update.

by Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) ⌂ @, Detroit, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 12:21 (35 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

It doesn't "just play" the version; if you're on a Series X, presumably you have to download the whole Series X version from the internet. Granted, AFAIK, if you're offline you can still install and play the original disc version through back-compat but I'm not sure.

On Xbox specifically (not sure about PS) it does. It's technically the same game, but it can tell which Xbox you're on and uses the settings preset for that specific console.

And of course it downloads it from the disc, all games are downloaded from the disc. Been that way for a long time. I do kind of miss just popping the disc in and playing, but I understand there are limitations to the tech.

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 12:55 (35 days ago) @ Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)

It is not going to install from the disc. There isn’t a Series X version on the disc for No Man’s Sky or Gears 5 or Forza Horizon 4. It’s just using the disc as a key and letting you install the Series X version. If you stick any of those discs into a Series X without an internet connection, you are absolutely not going to be playing the Series X version of that game.

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What Control? An Update.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 13:15 (35 days ago) @ cheapLEY

It is not going to install from the disc. There isn’t a Series X version on the disc for No Man’s Sky or Gears 5 or Forza Horizon 4. It’s just using the disc as a key and letting you install the Series X version. If you stick any of those discs into a Series X without an internet connection, you are absolutely not going to be playing the Series X version of that game.

Maybe we are talking about two different things?

It sounds like what he is talking about is something like PS4 back compat using PS5. It plays the game, but it might bump the framerate or resolution, or graphics settings. But it's the same game.

But what about an actual next gen version of the game, where it's a whole new version of the game built to take full advantage of the new console? How does this work in that scenario?

Sorry, but this is still confusing for me.

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 14:01 (35 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by cheapLEY, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 14:46

It sounds like what he is talking about is something like PS4 back compat using PS5. It plays the game, but it might bump the framerate or resolution, or graphics settings. But it's the same game.

But what about an actual next gen version of the game, where it's a whole new version of the game built to take full advantage of the new console? How does this work in that scenario?

That’s what Smart Delivery is (on Xbox). Your disc will work as a license that allows you to download the Series X version. I have no idea if the same thing will work on Playstation. It works with digital versions, but no idea if I can stick an old Miles Morales disc in a PS5 and then get the actual upgraded version.

On both consoles, that automatic upgrade is still up to the publisher’s discretion to allow.

Sorry, but this is still confusing for me.

It’s not exceedingly clear for anyone, honestly. That’s what MS was trying to solve with the Smart Delivery moniker. If you see that, you know it doesn’t matter which generation of consoles you purchase for, you’ll get the appropriate version automatically. Throwing physical discs into the mix further complicates things, and I haven’t bought one on five years, so I can’t actually vouch for how it works.

What Control? An Update.

by EffortlessFury @, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 15:57 (35 days ago) @ Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)

It doesn't "just play" the version; if you're on a Series X, presumably you have to download the whole Series X version from the internet. Granted, AFAIK, if you're offline you can still install and play the original disc version through back-compat but I'm not sure.


On Xbox specifically (not sure about PS) it does. It's technically the same game, but it can tell which Xbox you're on and uses the settings preset for that specific console.

And of course it downloads it from the disc, all games are downloaded from the disc. Been that way for a long time. I do kind of miss just popping the disc in and playing, but I understand there are limitations to the tech.

I can tell you that this isn't true, or at least isn't universally true. Series X games were built with a newer version of the SDK. Unless the game was pressed with a game built on that SDK version, the Series X will simply be playing in backwards compatibility. Not all games marked as Smart Delivery, especially the ones released before the SDK for Series X was finalized, had any concept of the Series X.

Games released that are built on the new SDK may have everything needed on disc for new and old generations. That does not apply to games built on the older SDK; those will require digital updates for the next-gen hardware. You can not get a new disc with the new bits and they may not ever release a new disc with the new bits.

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What Control? An Update.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 08:17 (36 days ago) @ Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316)

P.S.: Discs work, too! :)


So if I have a disc version, then I can for free get the disc version of the next gen? From what is indicated having the disc just lets your download the next gen version.


No, it just recognizes the game, and plays whatever console version you're playing on. The discs are multi-generational.

Woah slick. I gotta say MS figured that out.

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What Control? An Update.

by cheapLEY @, Sunday, January 31, 2021, 09:03 (36 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It’s still dependent on developers/publisher to support it. MS isn’t making anyone do it. Hence the whole shitshow around Control. They literally created a new SKU that’s the only one that gets the upgrade. Even though I spent twice the money, I don’t get an upgrade.

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Whew!

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Thursday, January 28, 2021, 09:54 (39 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I don't have to buy it three times.

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Whew!

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, January 28, 2021, 14:11 (38 days ago) @ Kermit

I don't have to buy it three times.

Damn. And here I haven't even bought it once!

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