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Yellow alert (Destiny)

by Schooly D, TSD Gaming Condo, TX, Friday, September 12, 2014, 13:28 (3524 days ago)
edited by Schooly D, Friday, September 12, 2014, 13:38

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/destiny (edit: at the time of this writing, Destiny is at a 74/100 rating on Metacritic, which is in the yellow range)

I know I read something about Bungie getting a $2.5million bonus if the game averaged 90/100 on Metacritic. I guess they missed the mark. Getting the yellow mark is a big deal, unfortunately.

On the modern scale, 74/100 (the current score) is bad. For a AAA title, it's abysmal. What went wrong, and how much of this is due to unmet hype?

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Yellow alert

by GrizzNKev, Down the street from Microsoft, Friday, September 12, 2014, 13:35 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

I'm enjoying Destiny. A lot of the criticisms are generally true. It's a new IP, and we know there will be sequels. Bungie will be motivated to make the current game better, and the next game a big step up. Compare Assassin's Creed 1 to 2. There's plenty of room for improvement, and you can bet that will happen.

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Yellow alert

by SIX min WHISTLE @, Michigan, Friday, September 12, 2014, 21:18 (3523 days ago) @ GrizzNKev

Some of it is definitely the impact from over-hyping. I assume the majority of the HBO veterans here more or less expected the game to be along the lines of what we got, in a general sense at least. A lot of people and reviews seems to bitch about the story, which cutscene wise is a lot less than the average Halo, and the Grimoire being totally unaccessible in-game does blow.

Anyways, reviews are generally worthless unless you really know how the reviewer sees things, their own personal preferences on virtually every aspect of games. I wish Metacritic would stop being a metric for this kind of stuff. I would think sales should be the most important to publishers anyways. At least Bungie didn't get totally fucked like Obsidian did for being one point away from their bonus requirement for New Vegas.

All that really matters is how YOU feel about a game.

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It's been trending in interesting ways.

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Friday, September 12, 2014, 13:39 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

The super-early reviews were fairly positive, yesterday the game was mid-80's. Overall, later reviewers have been significantly more negative, giving the game a pretty huge downward spike.

...Edge and Eurogamer haven't posted yet. Should be a big source of nervousness for anyone invested in those scores.

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It's been trending in interesting ways.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:54 (3524 days ago) @ uberfoop

The super-early reviews were fairly positive, yesterday the game was mid-80's. Overall, later reviewers have been significantly more negative, giving the game a pretty huge downward spike.

I guess Bungie was right: early reviews didn't tell the whole story :-p

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Exact Clause in the Old Contract

by Mars ⌂, Portland, OR, Friday, September 12, 2014, 13:55 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D
edited by Mars, Friday, September 12, 2014, 14:02

I was actually looking for that exact clause in the contract a few days ago. They have 30 days before their final score assessment. And I believe it's actually based on gamerankings.com's score, not Metacritic. But that's not saying much since it's low there too.

It's in clause 10.3 on page 15 of their contract. But even Eric Hirshberg has stated that the contract is out of date so who knows what their new contract says.

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My two cents is...

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Friday, September 12, 2014, 14:07 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

That people don't know what's good for them yet. I think before long, enough of the design decisions are going to hit home and the people clamoring for 4-5-person patrols and such are going to realize how ludicrous that all seems.

Furthermore, I think talking about bonuses and such like we've been hearing about is ill-advised. That contract language has since changed, a line which most of us have heard several times now. I think anyone in their right mind wouldn't bet on any MetaCritic rating for a game like Destiny, in that it looks to be set up for a long, slow burn rather than a one-off SKU with a bit of DLC planned here and there.

One thing I have to say was seriously missing from the PAX panel with Luke and Luke and M.E., was specific language about the way forward. If it's going to be supported like an MMO with frequent updates and new areas/enemies/gear to explore in each DLC, I think we can kind of rest easy. Mass Effect 3, Borderlands 1 & 2, and several other titles that can be lumped in the same basic category currently look nothing like they did at release. So there's room to grow.

...and if anybody kept MetaCritic score-based language in the contract, well...woe be unto them, eh?

~m

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My two cents is...

by car15, Friday, September 12, 2014, 14:20 (3524 days ago) @ Malagate

All I can say is that you're far more optimistic than me, particularly where game industry executives are concerned. (I could absolutely see Activision dangling a bonus in front of Bungie based on the game's first-week Metacritic score.)

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My two cents is...

by Malagate @, Sea of Tranquility, Friday, September 12, 2014, 14:28 (3524 days ago) @ car15

All I can say is that you're far more optimistic than me, particularly where game industry executives are concerned. (I could absolutely see Activision dangling a bonus in front of Bungie based on the game's first-week Metacritic score.)

Oh, I'm sure they wanted to, but whether someone at Bingle took the bait, well. That's not really for us to know or worry about, is it?

I don't personally put stock in reviews.

I'm here to kick ass and play Bungie games.

And I'm all outta ass.


~m


...waaaitaminnit

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I see what you did there.

by car15, Friday, September 12, 2014, 17:15 (3524 days ago) @ Malagate

Don't worry... I am perpetually outta ass.

My two cents is...

by Monochron, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:23 (3524 days ago) @ Malagate

One of the biggest complaints now has very little to do with gameplay design but with narrative issues, or lack there of. The second biggest complaint is lack of variety/intersting/non-grindy boss fights, which can't really fall under the "don't know what's good for you" umbrella.

That thing where Halo 4 has an 87 on Metacritic

by Avateur @, Friday, September 12, 2014, 14:31 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/halo-4

Yet Destiny is still by far a better game. Go figure.

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That thing where Halo 4 has an 87 on Metacritic

by car15, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:32 (3524 days ago) @ Avateur

It's actually not.

Halo 4 > Destiny

Yeah, I said it. It's true.

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*Snerk*

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:48 (3524 days ago) @ car15

- No text -

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#comeatmebro

by car15, Friday, September 12, 2014, 17:13 (3524 days ago) @ Ragashingo

- No text -

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That thing where Halo 4 has an 87 on Metacritic

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:56 (3524 days ago) @ car15

It's actually not.

Halo 4 > Destiny

Yeah, I said it. It's true.

In a way yes. Individual parts of Destiny can be fun, but taken as a whole, the game is not so good. One of the odd cases where it's less than the sum of its parts. Much less.

It's reviews like this

by Earendil, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:08 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

I think Bungie should have communicated more about the game. I realize that they were trying to break some rules, and so didn't want to define what the game was for fear that it would be misinterpretted. However, the public was going to put Destiny in a box, and with BUngie not clearly defining what that box was, we get people trying to put it into existing boxes. Take this review for example:

"[...]I rate it lower than I normally would because I feel deceived by the developer and publisher. They sold this game as an MMO that you could explore the universe with and go into massive battles with your buddies against tough enemies, and it's nothing like that"

The scope of the playable area is huge compared to Halo games, and is about what I expected for round one. I don't think Bungie ever said it was an MMO or had an MMO sized playable area, but since they didn't define size and scope people came to their own conclusions, and were disappointed.

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Right.

by Kermit @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:25 (3524 days ago) @ Earendil

I think Bungie should have communicated more about the game. I realize that they were trying to break some rules, and so didn't want to define what the game was for fear that it would be misinterpretted. However, the public was going to put Destiny in a box, and with BUngie not clearly defining what that box was, we get people trying to put it into existing boxes. Take this review for example:

"[...]I rate it lower than I normally would because I feel deceived by the developer and publisher. They sold this game as an MMO that you could explore the universe with and go into massive battles with your buddies against tough enemies, and it's nothing like that"

The scope of the playable area is huge compared to Halo games, and is about what I expected for round one. I don't think Bungie ever said it was an MMO or had an MMO sized playable area, but since they didn't define size and scope people came to their own conclusions, and were disappointed.

There's been a lot of that. The giveaway is when they call it an MMO in the first few paragraphs, or they seem surprised by the three-character limit on the fireteams. It's either a failure of communication or people hearing only what they want to hear.

You'd see this in interviews with gaming "journalists" over and over before the game came out.

Journalist: This is a really an MMO.
Deej: We borrow elements from MMOs, but it's really not that.
Journalist: So it's just like Planetside, huh?

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It's reviews like this

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:29 (3524 days ago) @ Earendil

but since they didn't define size and scope people came to their own conclusions, and were disappointed.

???

From where I'm standing, it looks like the issue is that they DID lay out suggestions. Their analogy was that each area was supposed to be like an entire Halo game in scale. They also flat-out pointed at skybox in the E3 2013 presentation and told us it was playspace.

And Bungie talked about areas that didn't make it, right along alongside areas that did. When the news surfaced a month or two ago about the entire game being only four areas, that was a big surprise not just because it would have seemed standard to have more than four, but because Bungie had discussed more (and it arguably goes beyond "implication" that we would have certain areas that didn't make it).

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It's reviews like this

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:59 (3524 days ago) @ Earendil

The scope of the playable area is huge compared to Halo games, and is about what I expected for round one.

But Halo FELT bigger.

1. The campaign in Halo was connected via narrative, giving more of a sense of it being part of a larger universe. Destiny's different planets all feel like tiny slices of completely separate dimensions.

2. The spaces are big, but so much of it is basically null. A bunch of it you just speed by on your sparrow. Very little is actually used for combat or meaningful exploration. Halo did more will less.

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Yellow alert

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:53 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

On the modern scale, 74/100 (the current score) is bad. For a AAA title, it's abysmal. What went wrong, and how much of this is due to unmet hype?

I'll tell you all exactly what went wrong next week in my review.

Yellow alert

by DEEP_NNN, Friday, September 12, 2014, 16:03 (3524 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I'll tell you all exactly what went wrong next week in my review.

Rolling, rolling, rolling, ROLLS EYES!

Yeah, I'll probably look (eyes squinted) at your review but ... you're too late. The rain train has already left the station.

Cody on Destiny, the also-ran (or rain) review.

Yellow alert

by Fuertisimo, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 06:48 (3523 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I'm going to guess your review has something to do with an investment system.

Yellow alert

by Claude Errera @, Friday, September 12, 2014, 15:58 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/destiny (edit: at the time of this writing, Destiny is at a 74/100 rating on Metacritic, which is in the yellow range)

I know I read something about Bungie getting a $2.5million bonus if the game averaged 90/100 on Metacritic. I guess they missed the mark. Getting the yellow mark is a big deal, unfortunately.

On the modern scale, 74/100 (the current score) is bad. For a AAA title, it's abysmal. What went wrong, and how much of this is due to unmet hype?

It's sort of amusing; before the first critic score came in, there were hundreds of gamer scores... and all four variants of the game were hovering around 4.0. Now we're up to 6.4 for user score.

Critic score aggregate is going down, while user score aggregate is going up. Not used to that.

Yellow alert

by Fuertisimo, Saturday, September 13, 2014, 06:49 (3523 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Maybe They'll meet in the middle at 7. A rousing success!

Yellow alert

by tarehart, Seattle, Friday, September 12, 2014, 19:27 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

I wonder what Bungie would do with the bonus. Would you pay it out to all the employees or reinvest it in something?

I'm confused!

by Captain Spark @, Oregon, Friday, September 12, 2014, 20:02 (3524 days ago) @ Schooly D

Why would Activision use some website's relatively ambiguous game ranking to determine if Bungie gets a bonus? I've always assumed that the sales figures of a new game determines if it is a success or a failure!

2.5 million dollars seems to me like an insult to Bungie considering they are a hugely successful developer.

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I'm confused!

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Friday, September 12, 2014, 20:13 (3523 days ago) @ Captain Spark

Why would Activision use some website's relatively ambiguous game ranking to determine if Bungie gets a bonus? I've always assumed that the sales figures of a new game determines if it is a success or a failure!

Future sales potential. For non-launch Destiny sales (including people explicitly waiting for reviews before deciding to buy), DLC sales, and sales of future Destiny products.

That it launched well was basically guaranteed by the marketing. The rate at which people continue to buy it, and the extent to which they stick around (and thus have future sales potential) is in theory going to be somewhat dependent on how good the game is, which is in theory related to reviews.

Whether metacritic is actually a good (and/or non-offensive, hehe) gauge is debatable, but there definitely is a sales-related logic to it.

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Green Alert

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 13:08 (3522 days ago) @ Schooly D

It's up to 75 now, which is green.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/destiny

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Green Alert

by uberfoop @, Seattle-ish, Sunday, September 14, 2014, 13:12 (3522 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It might rise a point or two if they keep getting little reviewers dumping on the decent scores.

The real interestingness will be when Edge, Eurogamer, and IGN do their thing.

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