YAY (Destiny)

by Avateur , Saturday, September 26, 2026, 17:32 (1 hours, 48 minutes ago) @ Kermit

My point was that in their public presentation to their fans, especially in the lead-up to Halo 4, they seemed more eager to please (or more concerned about whether we would be pleased) than Bungie had been up to that point. Perhaps that wasn't a reflection of the dominant attitude inside the studio, but that's the vibe I got from the messaging, and I think there was probably some correspondence.

I’m only going to say one thing about this because I think you’re really off the mark. And we don’t need to relitigate their past or excuse them anymore. They’re a shut down studio for many reasons. But 343 publicly boasted about hiring people who hated Halo in the lead up to Halo 4. That’s not trying to appeal to the fans or trying to continue capturing Halo’s “essence.”

Sorry to litigate, but I'd like to see the source for that. Who boasted about hiring people who hated Halo?

I remember 343 leadership saying they had hired people outside the gaming industry with the goal of creating a diverse team. I remember some quote stating that some people had been hired who weren't Halo fans when hired. And so what? Tony Gilroy wasn't a Star Wars fan when he was hired, and he ended up making the best Star Wars creation since 1980.

Man, I said I was only gonna say the one thing. And HBO and Google exist. But Frankie said it, and yes, he used the word hate. You can hire people who aren’t fans of a thing and have that be great. But hate? That’s quite the word.

In regards to hiring, I would have done the same if I wanted to create something that wasn't a retread. I would certainly have hardcore Halo fans at the table, and might even give them veto power, but I would also want people who had fresh ideas and whose imaginations weren't weighed down by nostalgia. What did Cody say the other day about Halo needing its Mario 64 moment?

What would appeal to fans? You seem to know. And you talk like 343 knew in 2012 and said fuck them. With all due respect, I think you've got some major hindsight bias on this subject.

Eh, I covered a lot of this ages ago. And 343 did what they did. There’s no relitigating my thoughts on it either. All we can do is, Destiny style, hope for the future!

The retcons in Halo 4 were not evidence that 343 didn't care about what Halo fans thought any more than retcons in Reach meant that Bungie didn't. Those were creative choices. Both studios hoped that fans would come with them while they did something new. As it turned out, those choices ticked off some fans, especially in the case of Halo 4, but that could have gone the other way, and it did for some people. If anything, 343 probably should have made bolder choices. They were going to be criticized no matter what. I think worrying about what fans thought handicapped them and might have paralyzed them--that might be one reason their output was so sparse.

I think the talent 343 hired, many of which were big Halo fans, didn't want to work for a Halo factory, putting out versions of the same game every few years like COD. In my opinion, every Bungie Halo game had things about it that were better than the previous games. I think 343 wanted to extend that streak. They failed, sadly, but I think they had good intentions. I'm not sure, given all the factors, that they could have succeeded. To echo Cody, Halo needed its Andor moment, but Andor was a miracle. So many pieces had to fall into place for that to get made. Even though I'm not particularly positive about the future of Halo, I felt even worse about the future of Star Wars four years ago. Miracles can happen.

I think this is all very fair. I actually agree with a lot of what you say here. This does leave out a lot of the outright lying, PR disasters, and so many other things that yes, I promise you I could be specific with with countless examples of how they treated fans in practice vs. how they spoke about allegedly caring about fans, but that would get us nowhere and just repeat a lot of the past. But most importantly, I am 100% on board with your miracles can happen. You nailed it with Star Wars. Marathon, imo, is pretty awesome, and it also has A LOT of issues. I love the game, and I’m really hoping they can course correct and turn it all around. And now that Halo is out of 343’s hands, I have the same hopes for Halo. I also know that a year from now, Marathon could be maintenance mode or shut down. I also know Activision could be a disaster for Halo. But miracles can happen, and I am really excited for the possibility.