I agree, except for the second part. (Destiny)

by General Vagueness , The Vault of Sass, Thursday, May 07, 2015, 01:21 (3487 days ago) @ Cody Miller

It doesn't make sense to design around something that only presents once unless you're actually building a puzzle game, and Destiny is not a puzzle game, it's a shooter. (Even in the case of a puzzle game, it's best to have depth beyond one correct solution, which you've talked about at length before with Portal versus Portal 2, weakening your own point with your own words.)

If you think there is only one 'solution' to the templar fight, the confluxes, the death singer, or even Atheon, then you either have not raided much, or you lack imagination.

What? That's my point. They're designing for more than one solution. You can't find more than one solution (in practical terms) in one play-through. Ergo, I don't understand you saying they should focus on raids and specifically on the experience of running a raid for the first time-- or did I misunderstand, and you were just going on a tangent to say that you liked what they did with that?

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Prison of Elders Live Stream Discussion - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 15:50
- Mature audiences warning this time. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 15:53
  - Hide your kids. - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 15:54
  - Level 32 Guardians only :P - CyberKN, 2015-05-06, 15:55
  - Stick it in Guardians - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 15:57
  - Guess that means we aren't allowed - ChrisTheeCrappy, 2015-05-06, 15:58
- Don't read the chat. - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 15:55
  - Why are they all saying "hype"? - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:01
    - Don't even try man. You'll just get hurt. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:01
    - De Train! De Train! - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 16:02
- The comments stream is kinda spectacular right now :D - CruelLEGACEY, 2015-05-06, 16:03
- How about that music - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 16:04
  - Dem Oboes. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:04
- DeeJ went casual this time. - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:05
- DEEJ!!!!!! - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 16:06
  - I'll buy it. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:07
  - Thought this was re how bad he is at Destiny - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 17:34
- "Level 28 is matchmade" - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:08
  - Up to level 35 challenge modes - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:08
  - "Level 28 is matchmade" - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:08
  - See, Cody? Just wait. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:08
- Level 28 can be run indefinitely with rewards - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:09
  - I like this. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:10
- Sounds level suck. I'm gonna blow my ear drums out afterwrds - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 16:09
  - Now fixed and makes my ears hurt til turned down. - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 16:11
    - I have mine cranked way down - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 16:17
      - Broman = Annoying - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 16:23
        
        I hate him more than anything I've ever hated. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:26
        
        Broman = Annoying - CaneCutter, 2015-05-06, 16:30
        
        I'm out. someone else damage their ears for me. - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 16:31
        
        someone else damage their brain for me. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:31
        
        He is so LOOOOOUUUUUD. - BeardFade, 2015-05-06, 16:32
        
        Broman = Annoying - ProbablyLast, 2015-05-06, 16:33
        
        He's not so bad - someotherguy, 2015-05-06, 16:52
        
        He's loud and excited, but not as annoying as the first guy. - dogcow, 2015-05-06, 17:29
        
        He's loud and excited, but not as annoying as the first guy. - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 17:42
        
        He's loud and excited, but not as annoying as the first guy. - ProbablyLast, 2015-05-06, 17:44
        
        He just said "I can't even" non ironically. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 17:30
        
        Why Professor Broman? - narcogen, 2015-05-07, 07:00
        
        hahahaha - unoudid, 2015-05-07, 12:24
- Why are they different names? - Mid7night, 2015-05-06, 16:09
- New modifiers, first: Trickle - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:11
  - Small Arms - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:24
    - After completing 3 hive waves, new arena of cabal waves. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:25
      - The seem to be having a much harder time with this wave. - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 16:28
  - Missed the name of the third one - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:44
    - Exposure. I think... - CaneCutter, 2015-05-06, 16:47
      - Red Death is giving DeeJ a small amount of shields back - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:55
        
        Red Death is giving DeeJ a small amount of shields back - stabbim, 2015-05-06, 18:00
        
        Red Death is giving DeeJ a small amount of shields back - Vortech, 2015-05-06, 18:17
- Fight waves of enemies at a time. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:13
  - Wipe has reset all progress through initial waves. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:18
- I am loving this first arena. Hive everywhere. Neat space. - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 16:15
  - I want Sammon's pistol. It is the tits. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:15
    - Confirmed it's a special! - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:16
      - Fast firing pistol, perk against fallen - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 17:02
    - Screenshot of perks - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 17:59
      - Another screenshot. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 19:35
        
        So do those perks come unlocked out of the box? - CyberKN, 2015-05-06, 19:36
        
        If only Broman asked the important questions :( - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 19:37
        
        If only Broman asked the important questions :( - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 19:41
        
        If only Broman asked the important questions :( - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 19:43
- Hand cannon secondary :-) - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 16:16
- Objectives in addition to killing - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:26
  - Something is making Goose noises. It's great. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:28
    - Heavy ammo spawns mid round. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:36
  - VIP Objective as well - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:46
- Death restarts at beginning of round - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:27
- Something Something Inside Voices Something. ಠ_ಠ - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 16:28
- Scorch Cannon! - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:30
  - With a charge shot of some kind - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:32
  - Functions like relic/sword. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:32
- Scorch Cannon..giant flamethrower gun..broman is loud again - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 16:32
  - THIS GUN THAT IS WORSE THAN MY GUN IS AWESOME! - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:37
    - Actively rooting for the Cabal. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:39
      - Actively rooting for the Cabal. - ProbablyLast, 2015-05-06, 16:50
      - ROFL. Good choice. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:51
- Warden gives random "gifts" during round - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:36
- Does he know the mythoclast does't count as a primary? - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 16:38
  - I don't think so. He doesn't seem to be that good. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:39
    - Confirmed. He has acknowledged he is not good. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:44
  - In fairness he did ask later - someotherguy, 2015-05-06, 16:57
- Twitch streamer is talking about a "Treasure Room" - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 16:39
  - Twitch streamer is talking about a "Treasure Room" - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 16:48
    - The IGN team got Treasure Keys at the end - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 19:05
- Objective points are randomized. - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:40
- Titan jump is still terrible. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:42
- Round 3, boss fight round - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 16:44
  - More Cabal this time. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:45
- New Online Petition - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 16:48
  - New Online Petition - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 16:49
    - Sadly signing - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 16:53
    - Heh. - Kermit, 2015-05-06, 18:02
  - Eh, he's doing what he thinks people want. - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 16:51
    - Deaf people? - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:53
      - Probably children mostly :) - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 16:54
  - "Oh, butts!" - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:51
    - Lol, he said that just as I read it. - dogcow, 2015-05-06, 16:54
  - That's harsh... - TDSpiral, 2015-05-06, 17:00
    - That's harsh... - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 17:04
      - In a minor defense... - Vortech, 2015-05-06, 18:27
    - That's harsh... - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 17:11
      - +1 - stabbim, 2015-05-06, 18:09
      - I'm available ;) - CruelLEGACEY, 2015-05-06, 18:46
  - #MuteBroman is a thing on twitter - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 17:17
    - Broman is the last boss, he just shouts at you till you quit - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 17:23
      - Broman = the Cryptarch (but less magical)? - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 17:24
        
        He has become legend, certainly. I'm never forgetting this. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:25
        
        Is this now how we "Become Legend"? - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 17:26
  - This sums up the stream - unoudid, 2015-05-06, 18:44
    - Looks like DeeJ's headphones aren't over his ears. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 18:45
  - They obviously chose the lesser Professor B. - LostSpartan, 2015-05-06, 21:03
  - And to think people were whining about Gothalion... - Korny, 2015-05-06, 23:50
    - And to think people were whining about Gothalion... - CyberKN, 2015-05-07, 00:03
      - And to think people were whining about Gothalion... - General Vagueness, 2015-05-07, 01:28
        
        And to think people were whining about Gothalion... - DiscipleN2k, 2015-05-07, 13:05
        
        And to think people were whining about Gothalion... - CyberKN, 2015-05-07, 14:47
      - And to think people were whining about Gothalion... - ProbablyLast, 2015-05-07, 10:49
- No checkpoints saved when you quit - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 16:48
  - No rewards it looks like till the bitter end - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 16:49
- If I just beat Cabal, why would I want to do it again? - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 16:50
  - Agree, that makes no sense.... - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 16:51
  - I think all encounters are randomized to some extent. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:51
    - Ugh. How do you beat player fatigue? You mix it up. - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 16:59
      - D'know. That played differently than the mine section. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:01
        
        Hive again. But different kinds of Hive. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:02
        
        Looks like this particular dungeon is hive/cabal themed. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:04
- Bubbles + St. 14 FTW. I think those 2 will be great in this - dogcow, 2015-05-06, 16:51
  - I think orb health helmet maybe for exposure. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 16:55
- They are having . . . uh . . . a really hard time of it. - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 16:53
- Red Deaths gives you little bit of shield back - MacAddictXIV, 2015-05-06, 16:54
  - Being revived gives you full shields again as well. - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 16:57
    - When low die to regen shields. - dogcow, 2015-05-06, 17:03
      - "Don't kill the last enemy, I'm going to kill myself first" - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 20:24
- The challenge versions of PoE seem almost like Nightfalls - Dan de Board, 2015-05-06, 16:55
  - I think more like weeklies. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:56
- I love that objectives make them move around - Earendil, 2015-05-06, 16:56
  - Yeah. You won't be cheesing this. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 16:57
    - Continuious movement, no standing still and sniping on this - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 17:00
    - I bet I could still cheese it. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 17:53
      - The internet...uh...finds a way. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:54
- Prison of Elders Live Stream Discussion - General Vagueness, 2015-05-06, 16:59
  - Prison of Elders Live Stream Discussion - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 17:02
- When no shield recharge is on... - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 16:59
- 5 rounds - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 17:01
  - Only 4 doors - someotherguy, 2015-05-06, 17:02
    - Only 4 doors - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 17:45
      - Only 4 doors - Speedracer513, 2015-05-06, 19:27
- He inspected the handcannon, but I missed the stats. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 17:02
  - Said it had a perk for fallen. It's also not a revolver. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:03
  - He inspected the handcannon, but I missed the stats. - ProbablyLast, 2015-05-06, 17:11
  - It's not a "hand cannon," exactly - stabbim, 2015-05-06, 18:58
- There is a Vex space. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 17:03
- We won't see Fallen and Vex today - Earendil, 2015-05-06, 17:04
  - Why are they carrying Heavy Machine guns? - Earendil, 2015-05-06, 17:06
    - Did they pick bad players to make it look hard? - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 17:45
  - We won't see Fallen and Vex today - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 17:09
    - It's a video game. It's dumb. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 17:10
      - Video games shouldn't be dumb. - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 17:12
        
        Yes they should. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 17:55
        
        Yes they should. - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 18:07
        
        It absolutely is stupid. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 18:20
        
        It absolutely is stupid. - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 18:35
        
        It absolutely is stupid. - someotherguy, 2015-05-06, 20:16
        
        You keep bringing me back, thatalsodude. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 20:18
        
        Thanks! - someotherguy, 2015-05-06, 22:48
        
        It absolutely is stupid. - General Vagueness, 2015-05-06, 20:55
        
        See previous post heavily implying that. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 22:18
    - It would be much more fun if they were unarmed(!) - someotherguy, 2015-05-06, 17:14
    - We won't see Fallen and Vex today - Vortech, 2015-05-06, 18:32
      - There's some fallen clips in Insane's linkdump. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 18:37
    - We won't see Fallen and Vex today - General Battuta, 2015-05-06, 21:12
      - Can't wait to read it. :) - Ragashingo, 2015-05-06, 22:30
- Hunters glow with beautiful energy - General Vagueness, 2015-05-06, 17:08
- Click here to see when they will beat this. - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 17:10
  - Why didn't they stream the level 32 version? - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 17:14
- Why did they do Lvl34? - someotherguy, 2015-05-06, 17:17
  - Agree, really looking forward to trying this out myself - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 17:18
  - Honestly? Probably to prove it's challenging. - Xenos, 2015-05-06, 17:20
    - Or to show off rewards and loot. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:24
  - Why did they do Lvl34? - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 17:47
- Tested: I can bake AO faster then this. /snap - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 17:24
- They should have done this as 2 groups... - CruelLEGACEY, 2015-05-06, 17:32
  - +1 - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 17:47
- Can't tell if .... - CommandrCleavage, 2015-05-06, 17:33
  - Don't care, Monsters won! - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:34
- Link Dump - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 17:44
  - IGN link has another gameplay video - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 18:18
  - Bungie Site Updated too. - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 18:19
  - One more link - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 18:53
    - THE FLOOR IS LAVA! - Vortech, 2015-05-06, 19:10
- First disappointing reveal - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 17:45
  - I agree, except for the second part. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 17:51
    - I agree, except for the second part. - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 18:01
      - I'm fine with that. That suck only happens once. - Funkmon, 2015-05-06, 18:07
      - I agree, except for the second part. - General Vagueness, 2015-05-06, 19:55
        
        I agree, except for the second part. - CruelLEGACEY, 2015-05-06, 20:04
        
        This might come down to what people actually play. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 20:08
        
        This might come down to what people actually play. - CruelLEGACEY, 2015-05-06, 20:26
        
        Raid participation may go up after PoE, too. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 20:30
        
        This might come down to what people actually play. - General Vagueness, 2015-05-06, 20:47
        
        Gotta spread that net wide, GV! - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 20:50
        
        Gotta spread that net wide, GV! - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 22:46
        
        Gotta spread that net wide, GV! - Ragashingo, 2015-05-06, 22:52
        
        Because Datto knows what it's like only playing strikes? - iconicbanana, 2015-05-07, 01:18
        
        Because Datto knows what it's like only playing strikes? - Cody Miller, 2015-05-07, 06:58
        
        I agree, except for the second part. - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 22:38
        
        I agree, except for the second part. - Kahzgul, 2015-05-07, 13:34
        
        I agree, except for the second part. - Cody Miller, 2015-05-06, 22:37
        
        I agree, except for the second part. - General Vagueness, 2015-05-07, 01:21
    - Prison of Elders is a Randomly-Generated Raid - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 18:07
      - Prison of Elders is a Randomly-Generated Raid - CruelLEGACEY, 2015-05-06, 18:55
  - I dunno, looks like a good casual experience. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 17:59
- No checkpoints makes me sad - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 18:10
  - It would be abused. - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 18:13
    - It would be abused. - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 18:19
      - That's what lower difficulties are for? - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 18:31
        
        That's what lower difficulties are for? - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 19:07
        
        Will it? - CyberKN, 2015-05-06, 19:19
        
        Will it? - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 19:20
        
        Will it? - CyberKN, 2015-05-06, 19:26
        
        2 types of bomb objectives, Disable or Destroy. - dogcow, 2015-05-06, 19:51
        
        Will it? - DreadPirateWes, 2015-05-06, 20:10
        
        Nope. Skip to 3:45 mark: - CyberKN, 2015-05-06, 20:23
        
        Huh? - iconicbanana, 2015-05-06, 20:27
        
        I was disagreeing. - CyberKN, 2015-05-06, 20:38
        
        "Destroy Splinter Mines" has no cap-point below it. - dogcow, 2015-05-06, 20:48
- If only they had 6 guys, then they might have beaten it. - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 18:13
- I had a meeting for the last 10 minutes or so of the stream - Monochron, 2015-05-06, 18:22
  - Rekt - INSANEdrive, 2015-05-06, 18:34

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I agree, except for the second part. (Destiny)