On the topic of the 5th Raid encounter (spoilers) (Destiny)

by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, October 29, 2018, 14:55 (2013 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

I don't like this encounter. Not at all. But not due to anything mechanically wrong with it. I haven't even played it yet (yes, I know... hear me out). I'm sure that from a mechanical/teamwork/coordination point of view, its great.

Here's my problem with it. This is our first encounter with a Dragon in Destiny. A DRAGON. When I found out that we were finally going to be able to take our guardians up against a Dragon, my imagination took off will all kinds of amazing scenarios and set-pieces and images. What we actually got is... well... its not what fighting a freaking dragon in Destiny should be like.

I made some comments a while back about how I felt like the raid team was coming dangerously close to "jumping the shark". This encounter was the specific thing I was talking about, but I didn't want to say anything more because most of the DBO clan was staying blind on the whole thing. So I didn't want to get into it at the time. But now I can finally vent, lol.

The whole boss fight runs completely counter to the sort of thing I would hope for and expect, given the narrative situation we are in at that point. Why are we filtering into small rooms and calling out symbols and shooting weak points on a head or hand that pops into view from time to time, rather than battling a massive, flying creature that moves and dives and chases us around a grand, open environment? It's such a bummer to get all the way to the end of this raid and never feel like we've truly battled a dragon.

The final encounter actually reminds me a lot of the sort of thing you'd see in earlier videogames that were trying to convey struggles against foes that couldn't be properly created within the technology available at the time. Like the old Jurassic Park game on the Genesis, which boasted about featuring battles against the T-Rex, except they couldn't actually model and animate a whole T-Rex, so they just had it's head pop through the bushes at you from time to time.

Anyway, that's my very silly and self-inflicted problem with this encounter. I'll go back to my corner now :)

Yeah, the encounter is fun once you get the hang of it. Our group liked it a lot more than the final boss encounter of Spire, for instance. Personally, I think it was a lot better than things like the Crota fight as well, where only one or two people really did anything useful.

You didn't mention it, but the encounter also has a pretty strong standing in the Lore. Having Riven be in a vault with limited access to the outside was important to Mara Sov. Essentially, Mara locked Riven away and then encouraged and provided resources to the Guardians for their Great Ahamkara Hunt. End result being that the Awoken were in possession of the last Ahamkara.

The Raid also ties into the symbols and the wall of wishes that the Awoken used in-Lore to make wishes that Riven would fulfill. The symbols were a symbolic language that... more or less... tried to remove the ambiguity that Ahamkara like Riven would use to twist and spoil the wishes.

There is also likely stuff still coming in Forsaken and more stuff coming beyond Forsaken that makes what we do in the Raid relevant. So, from a Lore point of view, this Raid was very strong.

On the other hand:

"You're sure you want to keep on with the axe?" Efrideet asked, reloading her rifle. The voice in her comms was barely winded, even as the Iron Lord leapt to avoid a plume of white-hot fire.

"That's why she gave it to me, I'm one of the only…" A globule of flame licked past Efrideet's helmet, and she tugged at her clasp, shrugging free the now-burning cloak. "Why in the Traveler's crack did you wish to fight an actual DRAGON, old man?"

Saladin Forge grinned inside his helmet. The enormous wyrm towered above them, bleeding wounds covering its gleaming scales as it reared up for another breath. The massive axe in his hands was dented, scarred, and melted at the tip. But it still held an edge. "We are knights, Lady Efrideet. Do you not want to be a dragon slayer?"

He charged, and his words could barely be heard over the creature's cry. "We are what we survive!"

Why don't we get to have THAT kind of fun?

I'd guess part of it is indeed technical. Can Destiny support something a large and freeform as you are looking for? Maybe not. But there's also a fun/challenge factor to consider. A Raid is supposed to be about teamwork. Having a fast moving swooping enemy would almost certainly increase the difficulty of making a compelling encounter.

Out of curiosity, can you think of any grand game encounters you wish Destiny would model boss fights after? Like... what's the best of the best?