Why I think ToO needs tweaked. (Destiny)

by Revenant1988 , How do I forum?, Thursday, May 28, 2015, 16:22 (3690 days ago) @ someotherguy

If I get killed by Thorn, 9 times out of 10 it's the impact damage that kills me, not the poison.

And that's fine. I've said so many times that if I'm beaten in a straight shootout (or even a lopsided one) I'm cool with it. If you're better than me I'll be dead, and you'll be alive - that's the entire FPS dynamic.

Agree to disagree, dude.
I'm telling y'all it's all in your head.

I don't understand. Am I supposed to believe that the times I've been postmortemed (or got one - I've been known to pull out Thorn on occasion) didn't happen?

No.

You know when they happen, I know when they happen. It's what makes Thorn unique, it's a bit a Pyrrhic victory a lot of times- You're mad you killed the Thorn user and the poison got you, which is what the Thorn user is wishing for. BUT, it still means you got the kill. Neither of you is technically better off. They killed you, but they were already dead, too.

Of course, I'm being general here and not taking into account team score etc, perhaps that postmortem also happens to be the final kill needed to push his team over the edge to victory- I'm sure it's happened, rarely.

But it doesn't dominate. The magazine isn't large enough that it could devastate a whole team, and not everyone has one. AND, a team that DOES use all Thorns does so at the expense of other weapons, and thus tactical options. I'll be very curious to see it play out on other maps for ToO. Personally, I feel the best counter to a Thorn is simply not being alone.

It's a predator's weapon. Maybe even kamikaze, to an extent...
("If you kill me I'm taking you down with me!")

I didn't get to run much ToO due to schedule, but when I DID play, If I have something that fires faster and staggers my opponent, it was a non issue. My B-Line trauma was fairly useful, in this regard. The games we did play with it, I was already weak when killed with it- poison or not, they could sneeze on me and I'd be dead. VERY, VERY rarely in any crucible match have I been tagged, ducked behind cover, and then had the poison finish me off. When it did, I had already been involved in a firefight, and what can I say? The advantage was theirs, and they took it.

If your argument was "Yeah it does that and I think it's fair" then I'd understand. I'd disagree, but I'd get it. But the argument as far as I understand is "Nah, that doesn't happen, don't be silly. It just gets in your head is all".

When I say "It's in your head" I'm referring to the prevalence or how common the weapon itself is in PVP. Remember, many players will never, ever get the Thorn because the Void PvP step of the bounty is VERY tough for most. If Xur ever sells it, maybe you guys are right, but for now, I see plenty of variety. With Thorn, you just, IDK man, NOTICE it more, because it's so in your face when you get tagged with it.

Maybe it doesn't happen to you, but it happens to me (and others, evidently) frequently. Don't act like it's a non-issue just because it doesn't happen to you. (Also please stop suggesting I "not panic" when I've said multiple times that that's not the problem.)

Again, the general panic. Not you, every time, as an individual. Person is already upset about getting killed by Thorn. They play a game and get shot with it, they get more mad, they make bad decisions. I see it as a cycle, and in terms of ToO, a catalyst to a volatile situation.

Side note: It's also not that I notice Thorn more often. I always know what kills me, because I check the top-right corner.

Many don't. With Thorn, you don't even need to. That, to me, is what makes it more "noticeable" and rage inducing.

The gun is fine for normal play, ToO is what needs some tweaking. The only way for it all to be "fair" is Final Destination, no items, Fox McCloud only.

It doesn't need to be "fair". Few Exotics are. Just let it be a reflection of skill, rather than bridging a skill gap by messing with the fundamental FPS dynamic.

OK, lets touch on that point, RIGHT THERE. -IF- it doesn't need to be "fair", then what, is the point of this, this being mad about Thorn?

Fair is fair, right? Or would that be unfair? If it's a competition, and that is the way to victory, then this is a total, can't beat em join em thing. The people that don't have a Thorn? Tough tits. They know the risks entering that playlist. (And if we continue this path, it will inevitably make some bleeding-heart type cry that they're being excluded. Slippery slope!)

Now, lets touch on point #2:Friend, if you want it to be a true reflection of skill, then it has to devolve, into equal terms on both sides, in all ways, and Destiny ain't that kind of game. That's why people like Snipe and Schooly don't play it- they HATE (and I sympathize) that they can dominate with gun play, only to have a guaranteed super per game kill them, and wipe that perfect score.

SO, when it comes to "fair" and a "true test of skill", it's 100% subjective on what is "fair" and what is "skill".

To make it "fair", you'd have something like this:

• Super Match Making that pits teams equally not only based on RANK, but CLASS (hunter vs hunter, titan vs titan, across all team combinations, YOWZA)
  
• Class abilities would have to be turned off.
  
• Starting weapons would have to be the same.
  
• Special and Heavy weapons would have to be the same.
  
• Grenades would need to be the same, with same timer, or disabled. (To stop crys of flashbang or tripmine abuse)
  
• Supers would need to be disabled. Too game changing in a clutch moment.
  
• more that I can't think of ATM?

You would have to strip SO MUCH out of Destiny to do that, that it just becomes MLG Halo, and if that is the game, then I need to fucking move on because MLG is the lamest shit to ever lame a lame.

IS IRON BANNER the definition of "Fair" in Destiny?

-OR-

IS "MLG Style" the definition of "Fair" in Destiny?

THIS IS MY DILEMMA, and why I postulate that ToO needs to be reworked, rather than Thorn, and weapons like it such as Mythoclast or TLW.

I LOVE elimination style gameplay, but THE VERY NATURE of DESTINY is FRUSTRATING, because ANYTHING can be "cheap" when it comes to elimination. Seriously! Warlock revive? BULLSHIT. DEAD SHOULD BE DEAD. Gunslinger? BULLSHIT. Unfair range, or helmet that gives 4th shot. ETC.

Does that make sense? Do you see what I'm getting at??

We already have Iron Banner, and this is just IB with Skirmish!

My proposal would be just to stop the DoT if the wielder dies - would let a skilled player save themself while still keeping most of it's current usefulness (and still melting people who try to run instead of fight).

And that might be a better solution to Thorn, overall, but on the other side of that coin, then it defeats the mythos of that gun, which frankly, is one of the most unique things that Destiny has going for it, that Destiny does right.

HOPEFULLY, that all made sense. I feel like I understand your side,FWIW.