ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny
The devil is in the details. The statement Powering Up Character != Player Investment might be better stated as Powering Up Character should not be meaningless Player Investment.
I believe Cody's opinion in a nuanced one. It is hard to specifically define the border between meaningful character growth and skinner-box investment, but I know it when I see it. I think we all do on some level.
Cody has maintained that no good can come from player investment systems, but he's presenting a really compelling argument for why they can be used (IE, modifying character player to draw them deeper into the story)
It seems to me that Cody has been saying essentially the same thing all along...Bungie, please deliver a game I'll enjoy. Do whatever you're going to do, but please get it right. You might think that's a bullshit sentiment, but consider Bungie's games over the last 10(ish) years:
- Halo CE (epic)
- Halo 2 (good)
- Halo 3 (decent)
- Halo ODST (fabulous)
- Halo Reach (meh)
Obviously, my opinions are subjective and personal. Reach may have been the most expensive, ambitious, and technically polished of the group but I enjoyed it the least (by far). Halo 3's multiplayer was very successful, but I really hate with every fiber of my being dislike the player controls and response. ODST was the smallest endeavor, but easily my second favorite.
Same developer, same genre, same IP, same universe - but widely varied enjoyment. Halo CE was no guarantee that I would enjoy Bungie's future FPS games.
My hope is that a new universe invigorates, and that Staten and the impetus that defined ODST is in Destiny's DNA. They are going to make a game they love to play - but I'm not sure I love to play the games Bungie loves to play. Heresy, I know.
Complete thread:
- Bungie and Deus Ex -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-07, 14:06
- Destiny as an MMO? -
Xenos,
2013-08-07, 15:06
- +1 - kidtsunami, 2013-08-08, 01:28
- I'm super curious -
kidtsunami,
2013-08-08, 02:24
- I'm super curious -
Xenos,
2013-08-08, 13:20
- I'm super curious -
Kermit,
2013-08-08, 13:32
- Ragashingo is now Mayor of The Reef - Ragashingo, 2013-08-08, 15:22
- I'm super curious -
Kermit,
2013-08-08, 13:32
- I'm super curious -
Xenos,
2013-08-08, 13:20
- Bungie and Deus Ex -
Oholiab,
2013-08-07, 15:08
- Bungie and Deus Ex -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-07, 15:58
- Thanks so much! - Oholiab, 2013-08-07, 16:05
- Bungie and Deus Ex -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-07, 15:58
- Bungie and Deus Ex - Kermit, 2013-08-07, 23:38
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-08, 08:14
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
EffortlessFury,
2013-08-08, 08:48
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - electricpirate, 2013-08-08, 09:38
- That's cute -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-08, 18:17
- That's cute - kapowaz, 2013-08-09, 01:32
- That's cute -
kidtsunami,
2013-08-09, 01:56
- That's cute -
kapowaz,
2013-08-09, 02:59
- exactly - kidtsunami, 2013-08-09, 04:04
- That's cute -
kapowaz,
2013-08-09, 02:59
- That's cute - electricpirate, 2013-08-09, 08:08
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
narcogen,
2013-08-09, 00:12
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - kidtsunami, 2013-08-09, 01:59
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-09, 06:54
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
yakaman,
2013-08-09, 10:44
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-09, 11:46
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 14:59
- You could also think of it as lvl up = unlock new mission - ZackDark, 2013-08-09, 15:23
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
kapowaz,
2013-08-09, 15:40
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 15:58
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - ZackDark, 2013-08-09, 16:15
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
kapowaz,
2013-08-09, 16:17
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 17:20
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
kapowaz,
2013-08-09, 17:32
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 17:40
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
kapowaz,
2013-08-09, 18:03
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Jillybean,
2013-08-10, 10:28
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Xenos,
2013-08-10, 10:35
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Jillybean,
2013-08-10, 11:24
- Alright, but you have to be the one that cleans up after her - Xenos, 2013-08-10, 12:26
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - Cody Miller, 2013-08-10, 15:18
- Phrasing -
Grizzlei,
2013-08-10, 13:34
- Phrasing -
Leviathan,
2013-08-10, 21:10
- Phrasing -
Avateur,
2013-08-10, 22:34
- Although I am thirsty... - ZackDark, 2013-08-10, 22:43
- Phrasing - MrPadraig08, 2013-08-14, 06:20
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-08-11, 09:41
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-11, 10:28
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
marmot 1333,
2013-08-12, 12:45
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-12, 12:51
- Schrodeinger's DBO - marmot 1333, 2013-08-13, 06:04
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-12, 12:51
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
SonofMacPhisto,
2013-08-13, 12:45
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
Xenos,
2013-08-13, 12:54
- This is going to relate back to Bioshock Infinite isn't it? -
Ragashingo,
2013-08-13, 13:21
- There's always a game. Always a forum. Always an argument. - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-08-13, 16:02
- it all makes sense now… -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-13, 14:15
- it all makes sense now… - kidtsunami, 2013-08-14, 02:04
- This is going to relate back to Bioshock Infinite isn't it? -
Ragashingo,
2013-08-13, 13:21
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
Xenos,
2013-08-13, 12:54
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
marmot 1333,
2013-08-12, 12:45
- bwahahahahahahha - ZackDark, 2013-08-11, 10:36
- Schrodeinger's DBO -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-11, 10:28
- Phrasing -
Avateur,
2013-08-10, 22:34
- Phrasing -
Leviathan,
2013-08-10, 21:10
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Jillybean,
2013-08-10, 11:24
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - ncsuDuncan, 2013-08-10, 15:36
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Xenos,
2013-08-10, 10:35
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Jillybean,
2013-08-10, 10:28
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
kapowaz,
2013-08-09, 18:03
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 17:40
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
kapowaz,
2013-08-09, 17:32
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 17:20
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 15:58
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-12, 06:37
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Leisandir,
2013-08-12, 08:13
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - Cody Miller, 2013-08-12, 09:39
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-12, 12:04
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - Leisandir, 2013-08-12, 12:16
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - kapowaz, 2013-08-14, 09:30
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-12, 09:37
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Leisandir,
2013-08-12, 10:49
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - Xenos, 2013-08-12, 11:00
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - Cody Miller, 2013-08-12, 11:38
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-12, 12:25
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-12, 12:56
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-12, 13:16
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-12, 13:21
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-12, 14:46
- You're not making much sense, man... -
ZackDark,
2013-08-12, 15:02
- Revised my explanation to something more full... - electricpirate, 2013-08-12, 15:23
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-12, 15:46
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - electricpirate, 2013-08-13, 11:42
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
kidtsunami,
2013-08-13, 01:27
- oh and PS - kidtsunami, 2013-08-13, 01:31
- You're not making much sense, man... -
ZackDark,
2013-08-12, 15:02
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-12, 14:46
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-12, 13:21
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-12, 13:16
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-12, 12:56
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Leisandir,
2013-08-12, 10:49
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Leisandir,
2013-08-12, 08:13
- Hi I'm new here -
MrPadraig08,
2013-08-14, 06:52
- Hi I'm new here - Xenos, 2013-08-14, 09:04
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 14:59
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
electricpirate,
2013-08-09, 11:46
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 14:05
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - ZackDark, 2013-08-09, 14:13
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny - electricpirate, 2013-08-12, 06:50
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
yakaman,
2013-08-09, 10:44
- ITT: Cody undercuts his central argument against Destiny -
EffortlessFury,
2013-08-08, 08:48
- Bungie and Deus Ex -
narcogen,
2013-08-09, 00:09
- Bungie and Deus Ex - kapowaz, 2013-08-09, 01:34
- Bungie and Deus Ex -
Cody Miller,
2013-08-09, 15:03
- Bungie and Deus Ex - Xenos, 2013-08-09, 15:42
- Deux Ex: HR on sale for $15 this week - Kermit, 2013-08-13, 09:05
- Destiny as an MMO? -
Xenos,
2013-08-07, 15:06