"Value", "enough being enough" and that feeling of Déjà vu (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Saturday, July 02, 2016, 14:04 (3159 days ago) @ Xenos

I'm of 2 minds on your approach here. On the one hand, I think you're totally right in a way. But on the other hand, what you're saying can be interpreted as "this game is way more fun if you ignore/don't engage with a bunch of the stuff that Bungie put in there". I agree that the act of levelling stuff up, worrying about specs, min/maxing builds can all lead to more frustration than they're worth. But that stuff is in the game for a reason. For some people, fine-tuning a build so that you abilities and gear and perks all compliment each other in just the right way is very satisfying. Bungie knows this. The problem is that achieving those "goals" is way more of a pain in the ass than it should be. Same goes for the levelling-up mechanics.

I've had people respond to me in a similar way in the past, when I've complained about how frustrating it can be to run the raid 50 times and still not get the gun I wanted. Some would say "if you're not having fun, just don't do that!". But to me, the fun of this game is very much dependant on the weapons. Using a variety of weapons I enjoy is what keeps the combat fresh and exciting. So I don't like the fact that reaching the stuff I enjoy is often buried beneath a bunch of frustrating RNG or other mechanics.

You're right, but that doesn't mean those people are wrong. Your idea of fun baffles me personally. Part of the reason I love year 2 is because the really interesting guns all involve quests with steps I can follow to get them. I don't own almost any of the legendary guns that most people do because I just don't think it's worth the frustration to get them with the perfect roll. But I also have a vast array of guns I DO love, so why should I care?

The argument about "why did Bungie put it in then?" always bothers me because it implies that the game is made for a very limited set of playstyles. Those things ARE satisfying to SOME people, but most people I play with either don't care or have those ideas as passive goals. To my play style they ADD fun to the always fun moment to moment gameplay because I get random moments when my gear does improve or I find a gun that I like (hell, I admit I even enjoy just looking at the new gear even if it sucks). But I have no interest in doggedly pursuing the perfect setup, and I actually think despite what a lot of people think that Bungie doesn't expect the majority of players to chase the perfect setup in any kind of active way. If they had expected it then I don't think we would have seen as many improvements in the drop system because they would purposefully have been trying to drag everything out.

That doesn't mean I think you play the game WRONG, but the changes in the drop system in year 2 tend to help you get to a light level to play any activity you want quickly without losing your favorite gear. The rest is gravy.

Edit: This sounds more argumentative than I meant it. TL;DR: It's because they play differently than you, and that's not a bad thing.

I totally hear where you're coming from. As I said in my response to Munky, I'm half there myself. But... doesn't it strike you as a bit backwards that in order to enjoy Destiny's "investment" system, you can't be, well, invested in it? I should clarify, I'm not one of the min-maxers that I was referencing in my post above. I don't have obsess over getting perfect specs on my armor or stuff like that. I do enjoy options, however. I enjoy having a bunch of fun weapons to experiment with, and the ability to try different playstyles and tactics. Because the activities I enjoy are almost always high-level activities (Trials, IB, Raids), my gear needs to be high level and competitive. I don't mind losing in the crucible because I was outplayed. I DO mind losing because the enemy team has better weapons and abilities than I do. In this regard, Destiny can be extrememly frustrating.

I also can't agree with you that "the really interesting guns [in year 2] all involve quests with steps I can follow to get them". Some of them do, yes. And that's great. But literally none of the top-tier PvP weapons can be attained through quests (with the possible exception of Tlaloc). They're all completely RNG dependent.

At this point right now, I'm in a great place with Destiny. I don't have all the gear I would like to have, but I've got enough that I can go from game mode to game mode and play however I feel like playing at the moment. It's great. The problem is that it took ~8 months and hundreds of hours of play to reach that point, purely because of RNG. NOW I can just play casually, get loads of useless drops without caring, get a happy surprise once in a while, and just roll with it all. But I went months without having an auto rifle that was good enough to take into trials and be competitive, which sucks. For every weapon I now enjoy, there were dozens of hours spent playing with hopes of getting drops I could have fun with, and the frequent disappointment that came with that. Not getting the gun I want to try, finally getting the gun but with crappy perks, getting the gun with cool perks but at a crappy light level, then spending hours playing activities I didn't want to play because they were the only way to get high-level infusion fodder, playing those activities over and over and over before RNG FINALLY gave me infusion fodder I can use... It is a crappy, crappy loop that this game creates. And yes I care about getting fun weapons because, well, they're fun! As I said before, that is the part of the game I really enjoy.

Obviously not everyone cares about the same things I do, and everyone has their own individual things they enjoy... but I don't think my complaints are focused on elements that are specifically enjoyed by others. The thing I keep harping on again and again and again is that I think arbitrary barriers are harming this game. RNG is almost always and arbitrary barrier. "Want a Black Spindle? Cool. Here's this awesome way to get it, if you're good enough. Want a Zen Meteor? Fuck you. Play for 300 hours and we might give you one. Unless you're on Xbox, then double fuck you (;p)". See what I'm getting at? I want to see more Black Spindles in Destiny, less Zen Meteors. :)