Tourists, Collectors, Hobbyists, Elitists (Destiny)

by Kahzgul, Monday, December 04, 2017, 13:36 (2343 days ago) @ Durandal

"When I compare this to D1, D1 had an almost endless true endgame because of three main things: First, the gameplay, especially PvP, was full of depth and had a very high skill ceiling which made it really really compelling to me. Second, the loot rolls meant that truly optimizing your gear once you hit the max power level and endgame was virtually impossible (and very frustrating). And third, your power level directly affected your performance in IB and Trials, and had a seemingly larger effect in endgame PvE modes as well."

PVP's depth was more a flavor of the week. There were seldom more then one or two combinations of weapons and classes that seemed ascendant on any given basis. Suros Regime Strikers early on, then it rotated as things were nerfed or buffed.

There were weapon-based metas which were flavor of the week (actually flavor of the every 6-months), but PvP's depth - in so far as I'm discussing it - had to do with the strategy of positioning, movement, and radar use and abuse in order to bait enemies, move without exposing yourself to sightlines, and control the map area. An experienced player could approach a wall on one side of the enemy in order to trigger their radar, and then move around the area to an alternate entrance quickly enough and stealthily enough to catch the enemy hardscoping the doorway they had triggered the radar at. They could also strike and then quickly reposition to safety or fall back only to quickly strike again from a different direction. D2's movement is far slower and essentially removes this depth of play.

The grind for gear was a frustrating extension of PVP woes, were lack of vary rare drops on weapons with RNG roles on top consigned players to a lower tier no matter their skill level. I know people who devoted several hours for a perfect roll Grasp of Malloc. Likewise Doctrine of Passing or a LitC high impact hand cannon were highly sought roles. This mechanic really added to the frustration side more then the exploration/discovery side, as most people followed internet posts to determine loadouts as the PVP was too "Sweaty" to experiment or relax.

I agree wholeheartedly with this and am not asking for an additional grind.

Power level didn't affect performance unless you were substantially off. Pre-raid gear seldom seemed to impact my performance in IB at all. Several times I went with someone still in blues and they were hampered, but could still get kills. If you could reliably perform the nightfall, you could play on roughly the same level as someone in trials gear/raid gear.

Sometimes it was enough to require an extra bullet to kill you, or maybe you'd play against a guy substantially lower than you and you could wreck them. Regardless, powerl level had infinitely more effect on gameplay than in D2, where it does literally nothing in pvp.

Really, much of the game was driven by elitists. You had to have a rare weapon/emblem/armor set to show off that you had accomplished a difficult task. That's why trials gear was such a big deal. It's perks seldom were a huge benefit but the emblem and gear showed one had repeatedly done something very hard.

Any game with a persistent collection aspect will be driven by elitists.

This is the same as COD, where prestiging and unlocking all the same guns is a big deal.

And yet in CoD you can unlock the gear you like, deliberately, after prestiging, and need not rely on RNG to provide you with your ideal loadout. Vastly superior to Destiny imo.

Elitists want to show off how much time they have spent in game. Grimoire score, rare weapons, rare emblems, ships etc. They want to go into the tower and be seen immediately as cool because they have this rare loot that no one else has.

I see nothing wrong with this, especially as it regards cosmetics.

D2, because the loot is all fairly accessible, has downplayed that aspect of the game. Now you have people asking for random loot back, because they don't feel that their character has any differentiation from any other. If only they could play long enough to get that rare item that would then become some sort of advantage that would grant status.

Requesting the RNG back is really a poor way to implement a status wheel, and I think Bungie realizes that given their addition of unlockable armor ornaments in coming patches that will be based on individual achievements rather than raw luck.

The loot grind wheel is really a status wheel. That's why the armor decorations were so big at the end of D1, even if the base armor was the same as stuff people already had.

I think we're in agreement that there are many ways to determine status without relying on RNG and time-sinks.

There must be a way to grant said status without more RNG to cloud the issue. I think the best way is to have difficult content, rather then gating things behind a effort wall. So stuff should be more like the Arms Dealer Strike for the Arcus, or the Black Spindle quest, or Trials, where certain gear requires practice and skill to obtain rather then just rote time invested. One of the largest complaints about the prestige raid gear for D2 is that it looks identical to the normal raid gear (with a shader).

I completely agree.