Bungie DID NOT drop the ball... (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Wednesday, May 27, 2015, 19:20 (3553 days ago) @ Speedracer513

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I'm only comparing them in terms of the amount of time they take and the frequency we need to replay them in order to progress. I'm saying PoE doesn't have the replay value that the raids have, but Bungie has designed the HoW content in a way that forces us to replay it A LOT to earn the most important new currency in the game.

This is probably the right time to point out that this particular opinion of yours is heavily weighted by the "Top-10%-er status" you hold as a Destiny player. To many players -- probably even most players -- Prison of Elders already has more replay value than the raids. Even to a fellow "Top-10%-er" like myself, I think PoE has at least as much replay value as the raids. My mind is completely boggled when I hear these arguments that the raids - that don't have a single bit of randomness to the mechanics or even enemy spawn points - have more "replayability" than an activity that is literally based on varied objectives and enemy encounters from round to round.

As I described in my OP, the static nature of the raids gives us the ability to "bring our own" replay value in a lot of ways. We know what's coming, we design formations or "plays" to get through each encounter. From there, we constantly try to come up with new plays or formations, swap roles around, etc. Having a static challenge to work through gives us the opportunity to learn and grow in a way that constantly changing encounters don't.

To say that you personally don't enjoy Prison of Elders and lay out your reasoning, is completely fine and I would never argue with your personal dislike of the mode. But to say it has less replayability and that we are being forced to run PoE with more frequency to progress (than we were with the raids) - seems quite ludicrous.

That's not what I'm saying either. I'm saying it has less replayability than raids, but we are being forced to replay it in a similar fashion to how we needed to replay raids, if we care about progressing.

I disagree with your assertion that there are no safe spots to defend in the arenas. I disagree with the assertion the objectives are not interesting and/or challenging.

Oh, there are safe spots. They're usually about 5 feet wide and 3 feet high ;)

The arena/survival modes that I enjoy don't have any true "safe" spots either, but they have areas (the plural is particularly important here) where a team working together can mount a respectable stand. These areas still require movement, jockying for position, rotating to cover weak spots, etc. Think back to the "Top of the staircase" in the Alpha Site map in ODST. It's a large area with plenty of enemy approaches. You can't camp and succeed. You need to keep moving, communicate, coordinate attacks, out maneuver the enemies, all in ways that PoE never requires.

The safe spots in PoE are never more than "a pillar", or "the hallway between 2 spawn doors". It is just 3 people camping behind a poor excuse for cover.

I am enjoying Prison of Elders quite a bit. Playing the level 34 Quodron challenge last night sure as hell felt like we were three-manning a raid. That encounter has just as many "different" mechanics as the Atheon encounter.

I gotta call BS on that one (in a friendly way ;p). I think you're dismissing just how complex the Atheon encounter is, probably because we've done it so many damn times that it has become 2nd nature for us. There is WAY more going on there, and in the Crota battle.

Just from talking with many other DBOers here, in-game, in IRC, and elsewhere -- I know I am not alone in the opinion that PoE is quite good. Even if you don't like it, I will argue to the ends of the earth that in giving us PoE and ToO (and foregoing the raid for now) Bungie absolutely made the right decision for the game and this community.

Edit: I wanted to change the subject of my post to "You don't like it - but I vehemently disagree that Bungie dropped the ball." (stoopid character limits in post subjects)

Just to be clear, I really think PoE and ToO are both important additions to the game. I'm actually a huge fan of ToO... I think it is near perfect for what it is. I just think PoE is nowhere near as good as it could be, and the problems with the rewards system compound the issue.