You're as inconsistent as ever. (Destiny)

by Avateur , Friday, July 10, 2015, 19:22 (3661 days ago) @ Ragashingo

You're just completely wrong here. Did Destiny do a pretty lame job of telling us why finding Rasputin mattered or that the Hive were about to resurrect their leader who had singlehandedly driven us from the moon or that the Vex were about to turn the garden world of Venus into a charred technological rock like they did to Mercury, or that The Darkness hiding in the Black Garden was actively preventing The Traveler from healing? Absolutely! But those real, important threats to The City are still touched on in the base game and are made more clear by the Grimoire and the later expansions.

Is the Traveler still healing? How do you know? You were told once, right? Have you seen any direct evidence of that? Does it matter if the garden world of Venus is turned into a charred technological rock? Maybe, but why? Venus used to be uninhabitable, right? Why is Venus significant at the moment? It appears that our situation on Earth isn't because of the Vex. I suppose the Vex could make it worse, but it appears that they've been hanging out in our system for way longer than we were space-faring. I can't see how I'm completely wrong when all you did was describe things you were told. We haven't seen any real plot or story or change or anything from what you just described.

Just take the events in the Cosmodrome. We are reforged in Light and make our escape. When we come back one of the first things we do is investigate a downed Jumpship who's audio log makes it clear they detected an active Warmind. We know from the Grimoire that Warminds were super smart, were in charge of our solar system's defenses, had arrays of orbital weapons powerful enough to easily swat aside Vex and Cabal forces, and even played a significant role in humanity's study and understanding of the Vex when one Warmind once had to rescue Ishtar Collective researchers and hundreds of perfectly simulated virtual copies from a Vex mind. Warminds were a big deal and so was finding one intact. From there we helped save that Warmind, who we found out to be Rasputin, from Fallen network attacks and we played a key role in Rasputin reconnecting to and spreading to our inner colonies. This is also a big deal because despite the fact that we saved him, Rasputin isn't talking to The City. And he isn't talking to us because it is very very likely that he watched his fellow Warminds die in the collapse, watched how strong The Darkness was by operating alone, and abandoned humanity letting billions die and possibly hit The Traveler with an antimatter weapon all so he could hide, survive, and win the whole game of galactic dominance at the expense of all other players, including us.

If I take the Grimoire away from you and wipe it from your memory, that little mission with Rasputin goes nowhere. It gets brought up once or twice and disappears until Dark Below. Destiny, the game, does not present this story and plot. Sorry. Your speculation of Rasputin's motives are awesome, and I like it, but you haven't really gotten that from anything presented in-game. So, I'm still not completely wrong on this. For the record, neither are you based on external material and conjecture, and I even agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I'm expressing all of this from what's actually presented in Destiny, which isn't much (and has been documented and complained about and upheld on numerous occasions over this past year).

The entire first chunk of Destiny wasn't us going places for no reason, it was us finding and partially securing a hugely important ally for The City. And it was a set up for a classic Bungie AI rampancy story to come! What we did on the other planets similarly had hugely important links into what happened into the past and provided huge hooks and hints for things to come in the future.

Well, I'm sure glad we have a Grimoire to let us know that.

Without our actions the Fallen would have captured or destroyed Rasputin. Crota would have returned and killed The City's millions of inhabitance. The Vex would have destroyed Venus and would not have been stopped in their quest to control time itself. And The Darkness might have finished off The Traveler!

Spoiler alert, Crota did return! Everything we did in-game didn't prevent his return. Rasputin being around doesn't help that situation out. Rasputin, to this point, has not been shown to have played any real part at all in helping us to deal with Crota or the Darkness. You're still just largely speculating. The game shows otherwise. The Vex are still anything but dealt with. The Vault of Glass is also independent of a ton of this, and we would have made it to Venus one way or another, with or without the Queen. Atheon was still a thing, though what we stopped or why is still unclear. The Fallen actually busted into the Vault of Glass, but it's okay because the very next level it was sealed up again. Even that had no consequence. You'd think the Vault sitting open would have been bad news. Or did the Vex just fix it right back up? Who knows. We're just going places and doing things.

A lot of those things already happened. The Fallen attacked The City's outward expansion at Twilight Gap, their walkers traded fire with The City's guns. Fallen warriors had to be driven from The City's walls. The Fallen would have won if the House of Wolves forces that numbered in the millions had not gotten tied up in a war the Queen of the Awoken initiated. Six powerful Guardians, Guardians who were legends and who knew things no one else knew, descended into the Hive's fortress on the moon in an attempt to kill Crota after he killed thousands of Guardians, and all but one of them were killed. Not just killed, they were tortured or smothered or screamed in agony in the darkness as their light was torn from them bit by bit. And there's more and more where that came from.

You saw all of this in game? I've been playing the wrong game apparently. I feel bad for everyone who hasn't read the Grimoire like you and myself have. Sad day. Again, Destiny, the game, has just about none of this plot and story.

Does this stuff also need to happen in game? Yes! But I believe it is coming. There was a quote from Bungie a long while back about someone internally liking the Vex the most because of a character's moving death. I'm guessing that death will eventually be the death of the Exo Stranger who we now suspect to be that Ishtar Collective researcher, or a perfect virtual copy, who was once held captive by the Vex, and who is now using the Vex's ability to manipulate time in order to try and prevent the collapse. Eris, to my surprise, is still in play as a character and there's no way she is going to end well. The Queen of the Awoken has agreed to go after Oryx (at Eris' request... I think...) and is basically in a cold war with The Nine, who are mentioned often but have not yet been revealed. Her brother disagrees with her on many things and feels pretty shifty in general. I'd wager there will be a death in that family eventually. Just not sure who.

I believe it's coming, too. Well, sort of. Taken King will finally show a direct consequence of a Raid, and from there things should happen. As has been stated numerous times by numerous people around here, there's probably no true hope of a story or plot until Destiny 2.

I think it's funny that I'm dead wrong, but you conclude on the fact that this stuff needs to happen in game. Which is Cody's point and mine. Nothing goes down in-game. If I could wipe the Grimoire from existence and from your memory and everyone else's, this entire conversation isn't even happening right now. Why? Because Destiny has no story or plot. Sorry dude. Bungie.net does, though!

I think what's really happened is Destiny's story really is meant to play out over ten years and the lack of immediate payoff is intentional, though the poor storytelling in the first chapter (the base game) was not.

I think that's a common sense statement. Ten year plan. Of course the story should be meant to play out over ten years. At the same time, plot threads do need and can have immediate payoff. A single chapter in a story can have a payoff. Half a chapter can have a payoff and lay a foundation and make things clear while keeping other things mysterious. The whats and whys can have meaning and develop. To this point, whats and whys don't happen. Taken King will change this.