Going to have to disagree. (Destiny)

by Kahzgul, Sunday, June 26, 2016, 19:30 (2861 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Even with Destiny 2 they won't get it completely right. They are so utterly committed to a bad genre and to bad game design principles. It not like Destiny 2 is going to stop being an MMO and become an RPG.

I'm going to break this down because I think it's really untrue.

Even with Destiny 2 they won't get it completely right.

Possible, but TTK was a HUGE step in the right direction, and if all of Destiny followed the TTK formula, I'd have loved it from the get-go.

They are so utterly committed to a bad genre

FPS games? Great genre. MMO? It's not really an MMO so much as a loot-based FPS. Fundamentally these two elements work really well together and in a lovely and compelling way, which is why we're all still playing this game. There's a core framework that's genius. Movement, shooting, it's so, SO good. But the implementation falls short, especially in the end game.

and to bad game design principles.

Vanilla destiny had bad game design. The plot was nonsense, the missions were all same-ey and repetitive, the enemies were not interesting to fight and had crap AI, the strikes were far too focused on very long and repetitive boss fights, resources were scarce, and the most vile element: Almost every reward in the game was pure RNG-based, which is a crappy crap craptastic crap of crap design.

Current destiny is a tad better. The taken enemies contrast well with their non-taken counterparts to make for more interesting combat (though AI is still crap), the new strikes are more mechanics based and interesting than the old ones (and the boss health rebalancing patch from a year or so ago was very much needed, as were the nightfall changes). RNG is less significant for getting viable weapons (though still needed for absolute top-tier loot), and the plot of TTK makes sense, including the raid element. Still almost no improvement to the endgame play loop, however.

Bungie could stand to note that being more generous with loot that's still RNG based for roll in no way hurts their game. Even when I farmed up scads of Grasps last week, it turns out I didn't get any that usurped my other guns, and even if they did, they wouldn't have been game breakingly good. I'd rather play a game where many people have the best gun than only 1 lucky guy. That allows for more fair, even, and balanced PvP situations and finer raid tuning. I'm digressing...

It not like Destiny 2 is going to stop being an MMO and become an RPG.

What? Are you saying massively multiplayer games are fundamentally bad? Are you saying Role Playing Games are fundamentally good? Here's what I think: Throw out the labels. A game that is grindy with RNG-based loot "rewards" feels like a job, not a game, and that's not fun. Vanilla destiny's end game was a job. Current destiny's end game is an improvement from there, but can still be very grindy if you let it. The actual activities have not really changed; they've just had tweaks to them such that you don't feel like you must raid in order to compete in pvp, or be awesome at pvp in order to be successful in the raid. Similarly the infusion change to 100% infusion has made finding new weapons and trying them out far less punishing. But the end game still doesn't really have a focus. Trials is arguably the pvp endgame goal, and that's a good one for pvp, but the raid is too formulaic to be a truly endgame activity for pve. Destiny needs an endless strike mode or survival mode that *isn't* the kind of FPS bullet hell nonsense that original PoE was. Adding points to more activities would help that (and helps focus how the designers would like the players to achieve their goals without outright forcing that).

But none of those things make the game not an MMO or suddenly more RPG-esque than it already is.

What the game really needs is a vastly more compelling plot hook to invest us in what we're doing. PvE endgame would benefit from community goals (kill 200,000 fallen captains this weekend) and PvP would benefit from the addition of AI bots for an endless arena mode that plays like PvP but is actually PvE. All in all, Destiny has a fantastic core gameplay feel, but the trappings of storytelling are lacking, as are meaningful activities for players who have already completed the raid and gone to the lighthouse.

Being an MMO or an RPG neither helps nor hinders how fun a game is. Having compelling activities for players do.