Going to have to disagree. (Destiny)

by Kahzgul, Monday, June 27, 2016, 21:35 (2860 days ago) @ Cody Miller

They are so utterly committed to a bad genre

FPS games? Great genre. MMO? It's not really an MMO so much as a loot-based FPS. Fundamentally these two elements work really well together and in a lovely and compelling way, which is why we're all still playing this game. There's a core framework that's genius. Movement, shooting, it's so, SO good.

The FPS elements are fantastic. The design of the raids is fantastic. The story missions less so. But still. It does feel great. But that does NOT mesh well with loot based design principles. There's nothing compelling about doing the same shit over and over again for bigger numbers. I've played 90% PvP, and tried the PoE with Ottermack since coming back. I wish I could play trials but I have no interest in grinding anything.

I agree. That's why destiny needs endless modes, like endless dungeons and survival arenas etc. You better number gear would then let you survive for longer in those modes, instead of just giving you better numbers.

Which reminds me, does anyone know why I can't buy year two versions of the PoE exotics from the Kiosk?

Gotta earn em again from CoE, I believe.

and to bad game design principles.

Current destiny is a tad better. The taken enemies contrast well with their non-taken counterparts to make for more interesting combat (though AI is still crap), the new strikes are more mechanics based and interesting than the old ones (and the boss health rebalancing patch from a year or so ago was very much needed, as were the nightfall changes). RNG is less significant for getting viable weapons (though still needed for absolute top-tier loot), and the plot of TTK makes sense, including the raid element. Still almost no improvement to the endgame play loop, however.

The existence of the loop is the problem. Destiny needs to eliminate loops completely. After playing Uncharted and Mirror's Edge, I just roll my eyes at the idea of playing PoE score attack over and over. So I likely won't.

Yeah, the endgame needs a lot of help. Keep in mind that just "ending" the story is effectively the same as having the endgame loop we have now. You're left with PvP or replaying the same stuff over again. PoE score attack is actually really fun. I enjoy the weekly puzzle of figuring out how to maximize points and play in different ways.

Bungie could stand to note that being more generous with loot that's still RNG based for roll in no way hurts their game. Even when I farmed up scads of Grasps last week, it turns out I didn't get any that usurped my other guns, and even if they did, they wouldn't have been game breakingly good. I'd rather play a game where many people have the best gun than only 1 lucky guy. That allows for more fair, even, and balanced PvP situations and finer raid tuning. I'm digressing...

So cut RNG entirely and make everything findable in the world or via a quest or mission, or way of doing a mission.

I'd like this. I don't mind chance-adjascent mechanics where the finger is on the scale towards items you don't have, and I really wish we could use our weapons at the gunsmith to unlock permanent weapon creation options or something, eventually allowing us to roll whatever perks we wanted on custom guns. RNG loot needs to be super generous with its drops, or you need to make it so that all of those rare drops are actually useful.

What? Are you saying massively multiplayer games are fundamentally bad?

Yes.

I disagree. Allowing for lots of players to play a game at once does not automatically make the game crap.

Are you saying Role Playing Games are fundamentally good?

Yeah, they kick ass. If they are done right, which is sadly not often.

So they're not fundamentally good, but rather can be good if done right, just like all other genres of games.

But the end game still doesn't really have a focus.

I think they could do something similar to how when you beat the regicide mission in TTK, that was really just the beginning. There was a whole new quest line post game leading to the raid. This needs to be extended I think. So you'd raid, which would then lead to more story missions and another raid, etc, rather than just the hard mode.

I'd like this, too - and TTK did a pretty good job with this, but eventually you would reach an "endgame" state. What do you do then to keep the players interested? PvP is the easiest draw there, but holy cow does Destiny need to be better about anti-cheating measures and lag issues.

PvE endgame would benefit from community goals (kill 200,000 fallen captains this weekend)

These types of things are shit. I'm sorry. Doing an easy thing 200,000 times sucks in comparison to doing something challenging and fun once. Destiny needs far fewer activities that involve doing easy things over and over.

The Mass Effect ones were really fun, but I suppose that's because you had an active hand in it by choosing which enemy types you fought. I also think one of the best MMO world events of all time was the opening the gates of Ahn'Quiraj (I'm certain I spelled that incorrectly) in WoW, where the entire server needed to donate crafted items to the war effort, which then opened up a new quest area, which then opened up a really massive endgame questline, which eventually led to the opening of the two new endgame raids. Players of every level got a chance to participate in a meaningful way, and everyone got a reward of new content when it was finished, which was awesome. The servers also totally shit the bed when the gates were opened because of how many players packed into that one zone.

Anyway, I'm sure there's a way to implement community goals that would be fun.