Am I seeing things that no one else is... saying? (Off-Topic)

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Wednesday, July 04, 2018, 19:37 (2332 days ago) @ EffortlessFury

I feel like I’m seeing things everyone is missing regarding what is really happening in TLJ and/or why those things are happening. Perhaps it is because I’ve been going through a period of rapid personal transformation and I’m beginning to understand a lot more about the nuance of people’s behavior.

Sweet. I'm glad for your new set of eyes to see the world. Collect the whole set!

I’m a bit short on time, but I’m going to try to articulate my thoughts below. Sorry if it is a bit incoherent, it sort of turned into an incoherent ramble; I’ll come back to clarify or reply to any misunderstandings or rebuttals. :P

No worries! Incoherent ramble is my specialty! :P

The entire movie’s plot arc is about the characters’ attempts at recognizing their key personal beliefs, both positive and negative, and the acceptance or refutation of those inner truths. Some of the arcs live up to my flowery summation more than others, sure, but it fits well enough.

Yep.

The main arc (Rey/Kylo) is about understanding the past and either accepting it or rejecting it. Kylo’s arc is the more relatable to the average viewer. Indeed, his behavior is, while on the extreme end of the spectrum, the type of behavior many people in society exhibit: unable to introspect well enough to understand and accept their pasts and grow rather than be chained by it. Kylo’s killing of the past is him dismissing it as if it doesn’t matter and can just go away. Here’s the rub, that doesn’t work. He has double down on the path he is on, thinking that this is his only/best option, despite all his feelings to the contrary. He is stuck in a deterministic state, unable to truly make a choice for himself. (Not to say he can’t choose better and that it’s not his responsibility, but he isn’t able to as he exists right now) This choice is his continuation down the spiral to ruin, increasing the stakes of the conflict to come.

Yep.

Rey, on the other hand, comes to Luke with preconceived notions. Expectations.

Oh really? :)

Luke throws her expectations right off the cliff behind him. He, too, is chained by his past. I’d imagine Luke had a lot of visceral fear of beginning the cycle of hate anew. The responsibility not to fail was on his shoulders, weighing on him, day by day, through every little decision. I know I’m assuming things here, but if you simply put yourselves in the shoes of this man, it is quite plausible. Nonetheless, I understand that this is an interpretation. But, assuming we roll with this, when Luke finally slips up and makes that mistake, he shuts down. To anyone who doesn’t believe Luke would have ever made that mistake, even for a split second, probably hasn’t been to therapy before; negative behaviors never go away and will inevitably relapse. The key is to forgive yourself for the relapse and move on, continuing to put effort into not repeating that mistake. However, this kind of mistake is not the kind you can smooth over by buying your buddy lunch. It’s a permanent, lasting consequence. And so, Luke recuses himself, now fully believing he is incapable of bringing the Jedi back into existence without the risk of some of his padawans turning to the Dark Side. A risk he was no longer willing to take.

It feels abit like, you're using the experiences or knowledge you may have to justify something in the movie that is not fleshed out, plus certain philosophical differences, but... sure. Yep.

Rey hasn’t seen his failure and doesn’t know his past pain that led to these circumstances, ...

Much like the audience.

...so she doesn’t understand why he has become this recluse. Nevertheless, what she and the rest of the Galaxy still see or can still see is that the Jedi are a symbol of hope. But no, says Luke! The Jedi are a sham! Their dogma blinded them to reality which led to the catastrophe of Order 66 and beyond. And he’s not wrong; the Jedi were puritanical, self-righteous, and as a result, complacent.

The thing is, you might think that the movie didn’t do a great job of portraying these elements. But see, they did. The problem is that not everyone can relate to everyone else. Not everyone you meet will make sense to you. But to those of us who have been in those characters shoes, we see the inner layers of conflict that rest just below the surface. That may yet be another lesson the movie has to offer: we must get better at understanding how to relate to those who are not like us.

Ultimately, both the Jedi and the Sith were closeminded as to the capability and purpose of the Force, forcing (lol) it into a box that fit the reality they wanted to see. But have you noticed how curious Rey is? She delves into the Dark side without hesitation and she went into the cave searching for answers. Contrast that to Luke and his trek into the Swamp in Degobah; Luke was afraid, Rey was curious. Open-minded. You’ll also note that Rey does use quite a bit of emotion in her Lightsaber fights and even used a saber technique in TFA reminiscent of Palpatine. Rey does not concern herself with the Light or Dark side of the Force, she simply explores what is. Rey tries to accept the past that has come before her (which is frankly a lot easier when you didn’t experience it) and learn from those failures to try to make a better future. This is where the Jedi and Luke all slipped up, they did not learn from their failures, they wallowed in them and tortured themselves over it rather than accepting it and moving forward.

Rey has a moral compass that guides her sense of morality and sees those ideals in the Jedi and in the Rebel Republic/Alliance (as do seemingly many others in the galaxy). Just because the Jedi’s old ways were toxic and to their own self-detriment doesn’t mean the Jedi of the future can’t evolve into something better that strives to fulfill those ideals.

And as for the Force, perhaps there will come acceptance that the Force is what you make of it. How you use it and the intent behind your use determines how it ultimately affects you. It’s all about state of mind. Emotions are important, they are a unique trait in life. The use of emotions in conjunction with the Force literally makes them more powerful. Frankly, I’d say that emotions make us more powerful in general. That doesn’t mean emotions are bad it just means we need to manage them. The Jedi achieved this by completely abstaining from emotion. Yeah, tell me how that works out for anyone in the end.

Rey’s severance from the past comes from the acceptance of what has come before and learning from it to make better choices. Kylo is continuing to try to kill his past but the past never goes away. You can never outrun the things that have come before you. You must make peace with them…but Kylo has continued to choose poorly and his character arc has him headed for a great fall. Luke came to terms with the idea that failure is not the end but is always a new beginning for a better tomorrow.

I know I rambled here and it could probably be organized better but I spend way too long on this. I’ll be back later to talk with y’all!

I've mentioned KOTOR:II already. ("Worst of all, the story and motivations Rian Johnson seemed to be trying to tell has already been done, and like... with an actual degree of competence. Plus - IT's incomplete! Ironically, it's in the past, with Knights of the Old Republic 2.")

I've looked UP and DOWN, and I can't seem to find the clip I'm looking for, but in it's place I bring a strong contender.

The main part starts @ 2:57.

(GOSH DARN! This games writing is SO SOLID! AAHHH! I miss this... so much.)