Am I seeing things that no one else is... saying? (Off-Topic)

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Thursday, July 05, 2018, 22:35 (2331 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by INSANEdrive, Thursday, July 05, 2018, 22:40

Rey hasn’t seen his failure and doesn’t know his past pain that led to these circumstances, ...

Much like the audience.

That's sort of the point, isn't it? Think it cruel trickery or whatever, if you want. But fans spent the time between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi theorizing about how badass Luke Skywalker was going to be when he finally came back (and he exceeded my expectations in the most perfect way, by the way). Rey is us in that moment, almost precisely.

Yep. No disagreements here. A fine storytelling moment that primes questions both new and old. And yet.

I don't understand where you're coming from with the idea that Luke's turn isn't fleshed out or well explained. We hear it literally from Luke's own mouth. What more do you need? Do we really need to see every thing Ben ever did as a kid that made Luke scared enough to turn on his lightsaber in that moment? Luke's word that he was that scared isn't good enough? Is that moment not enough to make you believe that Luke would feel such failure that he would turn his back on the Jedi path? It makes complete sense to me, I totally buy everything about it.

It's not about 1 or 0, it's about emotional content. A story is not just data, for if it was, then exposition would be enough. There is a second part to this, but I'll hold to this a bit more first.

It's -dare I say- fairly obvious, based on the tone of the movie, that Rian Johnson really wanted to push the old characters away to make way for the new. Which is fine, GREAT even. Honestly this move isn't surprising in the least, in fact I applaud it. Yet, for these characters that for DECADES were the FACE of Star Wars, no stone must be left unturned. People grew up with Luke Skywalker. Have a resonance with Lukes character in the original trilogy. This is a problem, as now there needs to be explanations mixed with the continuing stories of our new Disney Heroes. It's not a Luke Skywalker movie, and it can’t be. There there is no room for error and each thread needed to be weaved with precision. ESPECIALLY... I mean seriously, ESPECIALLY if that FACE of Star Wars is going to be killed off, for whatever that may mean.

If I had the keys to direct & edit, I would have probably cut short the utterly lame Casino Sub-Plot (which I want to add does have interesting things in it), and given Luke Skywalker a touch more screen time, because this is it. How does a hopeful young man become a grizzled hermit drinking -*shock*- GREEN milk, between when we saw him last to where we found him now? Yes, we have those answers perhaps, but it’s also not what you say but how you say it. In other words, editing, as I've mentioned a few times already.

Yeah they throw out a few bones of story, but there is little emotional meat per the weight of it all and I don't mean acting - they all played their parts. There were times where WE the viewer were required to fill in the blanks. For example; Why was Luke mourning the death of Han Solo cut from the movie? Who was the sociopath who thought (not that it's that simple) such a small moment wasn't worth showing? Here is that scene, which was a deleted scene, edited back together. I remind you that in the movie after Luke finds out his friend is dead, the movie immediately cuts to something else entirely (and I don't recall what).

Keep in mind that this clip changed the music around, but this helps give the basic idea. If that had been in the Movie, it would let the viewer grieve with Luke for his lost friend. That’s SO IMPORTANT! It’s both catharsis and character building (which of which depends on the viewer) and this was cut!

Look, I’m not sure If I have explained this well enough to present how simply content is not enough, but this is what I have to express right now. Sorry if you’re still scratching your head with this.

Sidenote – I find my self wondering how this all looks, and shall look, to those who didn't grow up with Luke Skywalker. Who just sees some old dude who knows things.

You said in one of your previous posts that audiences are stupid. I completely disagree. Not every single little detail needs to be laid out. I would argue that if you can't believe Luke's turn, that's a problem with you, not a problem with the film, because the films makes it pretty clear without lingering on it for ages (as if it has the minutes to spare). I don't mean that as a dig at you, really, I'm just not sure how else to say it. I don't mean that it's a "problem" with you, maybe more that it's just a result of your expectations for storytelling.

Again! Story Story Story! I’m like a broken record over here. Or maybe I’m crazy – neh. Nonsense. We all have Imaginary Killer Hamsters too, right? Right!? Anyway… let’s parse through this (with the quoted words in Bold):

Not every single little detail needs to be laid out.

Yes.

I would argue that if you can't believe Luke's turn, that's a problem with you, not a problem with the film, because the films makes it pretty clear without lingering on it for ages (as if it has the minutes to spare).

No. A story is a journey, or at least tends to be, especially Starwars in its classical sense. Perhaps instead of stupid, the word should be ignorant but regardless, we're entering a world with its own rules. It’s not up to us to tell the story, it’s the STORIES job to tell the story. When it comes to a story, if I don’t understand something, it’s inherently left to the story to fill those gaps at some point.

With that said, all this doesn’t mean I can’t misunderstand (or simply miss parts of) the story, of course. But to say that the buck stops with the audience is simply nonsense. It is the leader that solves the problem, it is the leader that gets the blame. The story is what leads you; be it a heard or read, watched or played. There were answers, but little solutions.

But with that said, it’s never that simple right? Know your audience. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sidenote #2 – Can anyone else see how difficult this is? It's like I'm trying to describe and discern exact layers of an onion. Not this layer, but THAT layer! Woah! Uhggg.