Followup (Destiny)

by Claude Errera , Thursday, October 29, 2020, 11:14 (1484 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Heh. They wouldn't make me an admin. They fear I'd instantly ban Cody the next time he reminds us of how many days its been since he's played Destiny. (They're probably right.)

I haven't made ANYONE an admin since the site was launched. At that point, there were enough cooks, and still, at this point, enough of them are around that the things that are needed on the forum side are covered. It wasn't really about a fear that you'd ban someone you shouldn't, except in a general sense (that's actually the biggest complaint I've had about EXISTING admins; they've been too quick (imo) to ban people over the years).

This is something I've ALWAYS disagreed with others about; my tolerance for unpleasantness seems to be greater than most people's, in this particular aspect of internet community-building. The only reason I don't get completely overruled is because I'm okay playing king every once in a while.

It definitely has its downside - this is a pretty big one. Losing an important community member because they're finally tired of the bullshit is hard to do.

The About Page is an interesting point. By my count, between one and four of the twelve people listed can plausibly count as active and involved with the community here anymore. But, I haven't looked at that page for longer than I can remember. Me being on there or not being on there has never factored into anything I did. And... at this point, what would be the point? One extra person can't hold up a community.

You're not on the About page because I completely forgot to ask you for the content needed to update it. Nothing at all about you - this was 100% me falling down on the job. (Happy to update it now, in fact, even though you're pretty much done - you've contributed as much or more than others already there, and that should be recognized.)

At the end of the day, DBO is basically dead. And it's not any one person's fault. The internet has changed a lot, even since Destiny's launch. People prefer larger groups like Reddit... but you know what? This place hasn't even tried to be alive or welcoming in a long time. It takes dedication and effort and a special spark to remain relevant in this day of FaceTube groups and InstaTweets and TumblingRedditors... and we don't have it here. If we don't stand out in some way, if we aren't overwhelmingly welcoming, or don't show some special expertise or experience or aspect that's hard to find elsewhere... then why are we here other than inertia?

We're here because we're friends (at least in the internet sense). There's still a Marathon forum that has users here, fergoshsakes. You're right - we long ago stopped doing stuff that attracted outside people. At first I was pretty sad about that, since that had been a pretty big part of my life for almost 2 decades. I've come to terms with it, though - I made the decision a few years ago that I wouldn't update the front pages of ANY of the b.org sites on a regular basis any more; if community members weren't willing to step up and contribute, there wouldn't be anything there. I 100% understand how you feel concerning support (both from without and within)... but I'm pretty sure I was clear about what you could expect when you started. I'm grateful for the time we did get - I LIKE seeing the front page relevant. I completely understand you walking away, too - I have always said that if you (the generic you, not the Raga you) aren't having fun, you shouldn't do it.

As far as Korny is concerned, it was his glee back in April that there hadn't been any front page posts in well over a year despite him having the ability to make them that saw me ask Claude for access to post on the Front Page. Since then, I made 12 posts, several of which covered neat things people here in our community did. I'd have done more, but it was a bit discouraging to be the only news poster when twelve people total have accounts. And then Korny posts and links to his own cynicism! The first post not me in almost two years and it leads to one of the most discouraging aspects of our community... That's a great look for anybody who finds our community! That'll get them to stay and to contribute, for sure!

This is part of what makes me saddest. You're not the first b.org admin to walk away because of differences with community members, and the only solution I can see that would have kept all the folks who are in that boat is an unacceptable one, to me - I can't justify choosing one form of self-expression over another. Yes, Korny's snark can be wearing. I tell him that regularly. I'd love it if everyone thought (or cared) about how they made others feel when they spoke - this isn't a b.org thing, it's a world thing.

But (and this is a conversation we've had on admin threads for years, I'm usually alone on this) I do not believe that removing people who contribute, but also offend other people, is a useful or productive way to maintain a community. I would MUCH rather convince those people to modulate their interactions in a way that continued the contributions without so much of the offending. I work at that all the time. I fail a lot. The level of failure is not enough to make me change my opinion that it's the right way to interact with people.

The end result of this failure is the loss, occasionally, of people like you. And that makes me sad.