It's safer (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, November 05, 2018, 09:17 (2006 days ago) @ ZackDark

His points about players cheesing the Bridge is also a strange one (by which I mean, it is strange that anyone ever cheesed the bridge because it was actually slower and more difficult than simply doing the encounter normally. I can't explain that one).

The abyss is a fantastic encounter. It is fun and exciting every single time. The fact that a small portion of the player base learned how to cheese it is, IMO, fine. Not a problem. When I compare it to more recent iterations on a similar style of encounter (such as the chase to deliver Riven's heart at the end of Last Wish <- Last Wish spoiler), the Abyss remains fun and exciting 4 years later, while the latter example is a pain in the ass that I would skip every time if I could.

These encounters weren't soft on the new players (especially with the punishing level requirement [remember how Crota was 2 levels higher than the cap itself?!]). This leads to sherpas preferring to play it safer over more fun, lest it devolve into a frustration-fest when you keep failing inches from the end only to start all over again.

Yes, that initial level gap was brutal. But in a sense, that was also the challenge of the encounter (I'm less prone to defend the level gap when talking about later encounters, but for the abyss I thought they struck a decent balance).

The actual mechanic of the Abyss can be explained in 15-20 seconds. What makes it challenging is execution. There are loads of little tricks and strategies that you can build up as you replay it over and over. So experience is certainly valuable. But there isn't a huge conceptual download required for a new player to "get" the encounter.

Having certain players take a "lead" role in raid encounters was fantastic. It allowed players who were more experienced or more skilled in certain aspects to lead and direct a team of less experienced players to success. It was a path for new raiders to participate and get a feel for the encounters without being overwhelmed by a tsunami of mechanics. Then, as those players become more familiar with an encounter, they can graduate to more of a "lead" role.

It's weird. I agree the avalanche of mechanics is bad for a newbie, but I strongly disagree with your conclusion. I think most of the confusion derives from how people usually explain the encounter, i.e. explaining the strategy instead of explaining the mechanics first and THEN how to tackle them.

I think you're absolutely right that there is a bit of an art to explaining raid encounters, and many players don't have it worked out.
As far as my personal conclusion, that was my experience through the early D1 raids. It's certainly a "YMMV" situation. I like thee way I could walk into an encounter for the first time, and someone who knew the raid could say "this is your job for this encounter". I could then focus on mastering my own little corner of the encounter, largely oblivious to what everyone else was doing. I never felt overwhelmed. And once I mastered my role, my curiosity would make me think "I wonder what it's like to cover the other side of the room?". Over time and repeated runs, I would eventually master every position, and then I'd feel perfectly comfortable leading a group of new players, directing them each on how to handle their specific roles, what kind of gear they might want to use, etc.

I find that the newer raids are too often dependent on every player understanding the entire encounter perfectly. There often no room for 1 player to make a mistake without causing a wipe for the whole group. My problem with this is that it raises the skill-floor that's required to make it through the raids up to a level that I worry is too high for the community at large. I could say with confidence to most D1 players "Your raid group can make it through VoG... it just might take some groups more time and practice than others". I don't think that can be said for Riven. Or even the vanilla D2 raids. I think they've moved up to a level of complexity and are demanding of perfection in a way that puts them out of reach for a lot of players out there.