Fun Thread - Crota designer looks back on the raid (Destiny)

by CyberKN , Oh no, Destiny 2 is bad, Monday, November 05, 2018, 15:18 (2006 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

https://twitter.com/bthorne/status/1059236386182578176

Read the whole thread. It's pretty interesting.

It's interesting, and also somewhat illuminating for me personally, given that I tend to disagree with almost every conclusion he describes. Some of his points are clearly and obviously true (for example, the fact that players will find ways to get places within a space whenever possible).

Disagree- There's a tendency for some game designers to design an encounter in such a way that their intended solution is "right" and any other solution is a cheese/exploit, when most of the time it's just the players exercising their creativity.

I'm sad that Bungie patched out so many cool way to beat Raid bosses with kill volumes and soft barriers.

Having certain players take a "lead" role in raid encounters was fantastic. It allowed players who were more experienced or more skilled in certain aspects to lead and direct a team of less experienced players to success. It was a path for new raiders to participate and get a feel for the encounters without being overwhelmed by a tsunami of mechanics. Then, as those players become more familiar with an encounter, they can graduate to more of a "lead" role.

Agree- Requiring every player be good at every role is stressful, and diminishes the potential for growth and replayability. Someone should have the ability to say "I'm good at X and not Y" and the group is able to work around that.

Killing all the remaining ads after the Deathsinger was also fun... it was a nice way to "vent" after the stressful race against the clock that proceeded it. Plus, it was a great way to build up supers and collect ammo before entering the final encounter of the raid.

I'm sorry, what?

All I ever heard from anyone about this was how much it sucked. Especially on hard mode, where clean-up duty was required to be performed by anyone who hadn't died, and took forever while the rest of the fireteam twiddled their thumbs.

It sounds like you're retroactively trying to explain this away as a good thing because it somehow masks the fact that the pacing between encounters for CE is actually terrible compared to VoG.

His points about players cheesing the Bridge is also a strange one (by which I mean, it is strange that anyone ever cheesed the bridge because it was actually slower and more difficult than simply doing the encounter normally. I can't explain that one).

Slower, yes. More Difficult? No. Lots of people don't have the patience for the strangers in their LFG fireteam dying over and over as they learn the encounter, hence placing all the requirements for success on one competent person who knows how to cheese.

The abyss is a fantastic encounter. It is fun and exciting every single time. The fact that a small portion of the player base learned how to cheese it is, IMO, fine. Not a problem. When I compare it to more recent iterations on a similar style of encounter (such as the chase to deliver Riven's heart at the end of Last Wish <- Last Wish spoiler), the Abyss remains fun and exciting 4 years later, while the latter example is a pain in the ass that I would skip every time if I could.

That's interesting to hear that. The final Last Wish encounter looks like the best part of that raid.

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After watching the race to World's first for Last Wish, I wrote up a big post that I wanted to discuss with everyone who was okay with spoilers about the encounters of LW, but never got around to finishing it. My big gripe is that LW feels SUPER uncreative, to the point where a lot of the encounters are just mixing and matching of other raid encounters. Actually, the last raid encounter I found to be not guilty of this was the Zamboni.