Decoupling player appearance from progression

by Xenos , Shores of Time, Sunday, March 31, 2013, 14:47 (4254 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Eh, that's not the point. Imagine living your life where you never made your own goals, but instead tried only to meet goals set by others for you. What kind of life would that be? So why do we accept that when we play video games for fun?

Because it's still my choice whether I do it or not. If the challenge sounds fun, I go for it, if it doesn't, screw it.

And how does your ability to choose mitigate the perversion that a deeply ingrained player investment system creates to the game mechanics?

That was not the argument this started with, you called going for achievements or player investment goals "obedience" disagreeing with someone stating it was fun. I'm not arguing whether it hurts games, I'm disagreeing with the idea that just because it can be used to manipulate players it cannot be fun.