Just to clear things up a bit (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Tuesday, February 02, 2016, 02:32 (3057 days ago) @ narcogen

First of all, thanks for taking the time to respond. We've got a few mini-threads going at this point, so I'm just going to respond to this one so we don't make a total mess of the forum :)

Narcogen, I just wanted to ask a couple questions. You keep mentioning the fact that I'm playing a team game solo, and seem to feel that losing every game for 2 hours is acceptable because of that.

Do you play much crucible? Do you play many other competitive FPS or team-based games?

I am on the opposite side of the world, where I've been for 17 years, more than half of them without anything you'd call broadband, and even now, a 250ms ping is the best I can hope for.

So, no. Because it is not fun under those circumstances. I played enough to get a few of the weapons that required some multiplayer games (exotic sword, first curse) but other than that, I might play a daily match for marks here and there, but that's it.

Ok... so let me say, with all due respect, that perhaps you don't know enough about multiplayer gaming to repeatedly attack me on this matter? Everything I am saying comes from a place of logical understanding of current multiplayer game design. I don't just bitch about videogames. I talk to designers and reviewers, I read about this stuff, I write about it, I study it as I play it and I talk about it with others who the same. You don't even play these game modes. It's fine to disagree about me, but you are slipping into attacking me directly, while I am talking about game design. Sure, "armchair game design". Is that so bad?

Losing straight for 2 hours once over a course of a decade of play I still think hardly constitutes a design flaw, and the complaint contributes to the continued pollution of the term.

It is an example of matchmaking failing to work as designed... which I've already said is understandable. Matchmaking is tough, and sometimes it doesn't work properly. However, in my personal experience (which is considerable), Destiny's matchmaking is particularly problematic for solo players when compared to other online games. All I'm saying is that many other games (including Bungie's past games) were able to provide a more balanced and fun experience through matchmaking than Destiny often does. Others may have different experiences, and I'll totally accept that, but you've said yourself that you don't play these games at all so it strikes me that you're arguing with me simply out of a belief that "I'm wrong" with nothing to back it up.

The idea that all win-state multiplayer bounties should be removed in order to cater to this one instance is, I think, an overreaction. The idea that their presence constitutes a design flaw I think is a bit silly. Basically you're asking for a change to be made in the game that would affect all players a little bit in order to prevent it from affecting you, badly, once.

You are assuming that I am the only player that has been affected by this. You are also assuming that I want all such bounties removed... which I don't necessarily think is the answer. I have no problem with win-state bounties in general crucible, because there is not time constraint. When it comes to IB, there are other ways to solve this admittedly niche problem. Perhaps give players more than 3 IB bounties per day? Or perhaps they could still limit players to 3 IB bounties per day, but give us a larger list to choose from so we can decide which goals we want to work towards?

If anything, assuming everything you say is true and applicable, the problem is that matchmaking didn't give you a chance for a win in two hours, not that the bounties also required it. After all, you said yourself, this has never happened before in decades of playing and thousands of hours-- even in other games that also feature Bungie's own matchmaking algorithm that was also prioritizing the same factors-- skill, connection quality-- over matching only teams of equal size and similar composition.

Yes, the matchmaking is problematic. As I've stated many times, bounties are in place to at least partially mitigate those kinds of scenarios. I'm not pulling this out of my ass. Bungie has been talking about this stuff since the Halo Reach days when they added challenges. Besides that, it makes perfect sense. It's the formula that virtually all multiplayer online games follow these days: offer rewards/progress for winning, and also offer rewards/progress for personal skill and performance.

Two hours without a win for a single player across millions of player-hours is simply not statistically significant. Bungie should not be making changes based on data of that kind. Nor, as far as I can tell, do they.

Again, you're assuming this is just me? I listen to Destiny podcasts, follow streamers and players on facebook and twitter... every comment I see on the matter is that this week's IB is particularly brutal against solo players. Players are quitting more often than usual, leading to more lopsided games, mercy rule matches, and JIP instances. Forget all talk about progressing for a moment; these problems sap the fun out of the game. "So don't play it", you say. Fair enough. But when bring up my thoughts on how a minor change might help alleviate the frustration that some players run into from time to time, I'm "entitled".

I already wrote this in another thread, but in case you didn't see it, my thoughts basically boil down to this:

If I was having a beer with Luke Smith and I said "Dude, I played Iron Banner for over 2 hours today and didn't make a single point of progress towards my rep or bounties", I'm don't think his reaction would be "that's fine". I think the men and women at Bungie want to know about these little issues, rare as they are, so they do as much as possible to smooth out all the little rough edges in the game. I'm not ranting about "my own annoying experience". I'm pointing it out because it would suck for other players to run into the same problem.