Being underleveled is probably okay *edited* (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Sunday, September 16, 2018, 13:05 (2337 days ago) @ EffortlessFury
edited by CruelLEGACEY, Sunday, September 16, 2018, 13:26

Counterpoint: Being underleveled sucks and isn’t any fun at all. I don’t like feeling like I might as well just being throwing rocks. (:

It's all in your perspective. Your perspective is something along the lines of: "I can't do any damage and kill anything." Another perspective might be: "I'm gathering data each life to look for patterns and create strategies. Death is merely the rest on the gathering run." Until you've begun to try to execute the strategy, you're playing a different game entirely. That isn't just a player style that Raids tend to cater to, but a style that lives at the heart of what Raids are traditionally considered to be.

I can appreciate the sentiment of this post, but I can't see how it relates to the experience of playing a Destiny raid. How can you begin to solve the puzzles and mechanics of a raid if you can't stay alive, or clear the ads which trigger new phases within an encounter? You couldn't even really begin the process of figuring out the Bridge section in Crota's End if you can't fight off the Thrawl that swarm you on the plates, for example. It seems to me that being able to keep the ads at bay is a bare minimum requirement for any team hoping to make even the slightest bit of progress.

Again, I'm not arguing with the spirit of what you're saying... it just doesn't strike me as being possible in most Destiny raid fights.

Part of it becomes developing an "add-management" strategy to compensate for your lack of firepower. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but it is a classic aspect of raiding.

I feel like this is exactly what we did with Lair 2. We developed a strategy to handle the adds, and that involved fine-tuning our load outs and positions. That we weren't able to kill the final boss didn't bother me once we figured out how to damage him. The latter was what mattered. It proved we could beat him with enough time, but at that point the blind raid was over. I had no problem quitting and coming back at a higher level armed with better strategies.

My point is just that you wouldn't have been able to get to the final boss unless everyone was high enough level to handle the rest of the raid up to that point. And I think that's where a lot of the contention around this issue stems from; The vaguery surrounding what level is actually realistically needed to complete the entire raid, combined with the huge time sink involved with reaching that level, exacerbated by the RNG nature of that grind.

Our point is that you can get to the final boss even when underleveled with the appropriate strategy. Finding that strategy is a classic aspect of Raiding.

I feel like we’re talking past each other a little :)

I know that finding the appropriate level to overcome a level gap is part of raiding. I enjoy it, to a point. What I’m specifically taking issue with is that being “underlevelled” is not a static thing in some of Destiny’s raids, because the goal posts change mid-raid. I beat Crota’s end many times when it first launched, and I was “underlevelled” the entire time. But I was equally underlevelled from the start to the end of the raid. I also knew after completing the first encounter that I would be able to beat the final encounter, once my group found the right strategy.

None of that holds true for Last Wish, because the enemies go up in level over the course of the raid. You might start the raid underlevelled, but find you are still able to overcome the gap by finding the right strategy. But that gap will only increase as the raid goes on. You WILL hit a wall. You just don’t know when, because there’s no way to know the light level of an encounter within the raid until you reach it. And once you hit that wall, focusing on a “strategy-building” run is pretty much impossible, because you literally get killed in 1 or 2 shots. Your team can’t survive long enough to figure anything out.

That’s the particular thing that I take issue with. If I’m high enough level to complete the first part of an activity, I should be high enough level to complete the entire activity. Hitting a level-wall (that isn’t communicated to the player at the start) after investing several hours into an activity is the precise opposite of a fun or engaging challenge, IMO. It’s closer to a simple waste of my time.

*edit*

I should add, just to be clear. Knowing ahead of time that the raid goes up in level over the various encounters is totally fine. Knowing the level of the final boss, I can plan accordingly and jump in when I’ve hit a level I feel comfortable with. This is what part of why I don’t like blind raiding anymore. It was fine in the VoG/CE days because I knew that if I was able to start the raid, I could finish it. But King’s Fall changed things, and I felt bamboozled by the sudden switch. I’d just appreciate some clarity and transparency from the game when it comes to these kinds of things.