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Where’s the Criticism tag when you need it? (Off-Topic)

by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, February 06, 2018, 23:47 (2242 days ago) @ Ragashingo

There’s also this funny thing where SpaceX gets crap from smaller government proponents which seems bizzare to me given that they charge significantly less than most every other rocket company to launch a payload. Your initial post where you were talking about corporations and capitalism felt a bit like you were going in that direction, as well.

No, sorry, not at all. I think private enterprises going into space will ultimately be brilliant. They will do it more consistently and efficiently than the government, because they will ultimately be doing it for profit. And that's where me hesitations come in. Space will just turn into the next frontier, the next industry to exploit. That's my problem with corporations and capitalism. When there are winners, there have to be losers, and we live in a system that is inherently exploitative, and I just hate it. Yeah, sure, it's better so far than any alternative that's been tried, but that doesn't mean it's good. I long for the Star Trek future where money doesn't exist and people don't have to worry about whether they can pay for the medicine they need in order to not die. That's much beyond the scope of any discussion we should probably have here, but, as I said, it was directly related to a discussion I was having before I visited and it was on my mind.

On the other hand, thank you. I genuinely learned something, and we got there in the end. Now, maybe we can actually have the discussion I could have started in a more graceful way.


Yeah, there’s certainly an interesting discussion to be had there on many fronts. One thing I’d totally bring up is how come it sometimes seems like the people who are the most innovative and revolutionary are also bad at respecting the people under them. Like, Steve Jobs revolutionized the computer and phone and digital music industries... but it is pretty universally accepted that he could be a total jerk. Discussion on how we plan to protect the rights or workers who we send to other worlds could be amazingly interesting as well... you know... given that we don’t always manage to protect them here on our one single world.

That's the other side of my entire issue. Steve Jobs was undeniably revolutionary and also a total asshole (apparently, obviously I don't know him). Yet folks worship him anyway. Building the iPod and iTunes and the iPhone is seemingly more important to them than any human cost to those things.

I can't fully judge, but I've read some statements from Elon Musk that give me a similar impression. I won't lump him in with Steve Jobs--I don't know enough about him. I looked for a quote I remember (I couldn't find it) about the working conditions allegations. It boiled down to, "Yeah, they work hard and long hours, but I don't ask them to do anything I wouldn't do" or something along those lines. And I just hate that sort of reasoning. Sure, Elon, you go ahead and work yourself to the bone for 16 hour days, but it's absolutely wrong to want your factory workers to do the same (at least to me). You built the company, you inherently care more than anyone else about it, you can't expect your employees to do what you do.

I do think there’s something to be said for allowing people to celebrate and for keeping in mind that people don’t like their celebrations interrupted, but yes, I agree, I should have asked for clarification and tried harder to draw out your points. For not doing that, I am sorry.

Legitimately, this is why I like this place. Sure, things got heated, and maybe a bit more personal than they should have. Sorry for that. But at the end of the day, we can have the discussion or argument or whatever and then move on, with apologies if needed. I genuinely hold no ill will, and I am sorry for getting as worked up as I did and for any insults I threw around. I get fired up much easier than I should. I'm too old for that shit and I know better. It's a poor excuse, but it really has been a rough day.


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