Absolutely! (Destiny)

by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Monday, September 28, 2015, 02:04 (3389 days ago) @ narcogen

Is that how sexism works? We have to have exactly a 50/50 split or the developer is doing it wrong? Or do we need more? To be rid of sexism do two out of every three characters have to be female? Three out of three? Does Bungie need to develop a forth Class not for gameplay reasons but solely so we can have four Vanguard leaders around that table so that two can be male and two can be female?

Not necessarily. However what harm would have there have been in making two out of three of them female instead of the other way around?

And what is gained? Checking off a checkbox that says: "Has more females than males"? And, again, how is having the balance in favor of females any better? Is sexism only a thing when it goes against females?

For instance:
- 6 out of 7 of the Queen's Paladin commanders were female.
- Almost every single Awoken shown in a combat role, except the Queen's Brother, has been female.
- The entire Hive race appears to start out as and identify as female.
Should these example also be brought to a 50/50 balance?

Again, not necessarily. Merely doing so would not be enough if other problems existed. It's also hard to point out that women are portrayed positively, and then show how many of the examples we do have come from the Hive.

Two out of three of my examples there were about the Awoken. ;) But, more seriously, that only leads me back to my argument that numbers don't matter so much as long as the portrayal of the sexes is done right. I'd buy that having a "sufficient" representation of each sex is important but I think making an issue out of a 1/3 vs 2/3 split in leadership, for instance, is taking things a good bit too far.

It is a bigger problem! However, it starts with the balance. The first problem that a game can have is no portrayal at all. Then it can portray women as inferior or subservient, or use them merely as symbols for telling men's stories. Destiny avoids some of these but not all.

Destiny certainly doesn't have zero females. I don't think there's any case that it portrays women as inferior or subservient. I think you'd have to go down the "symbols for telling men's stories" path which is quite a hard one.

Bungie is doing better than most, but again, that doesn't mean that no criticisms are valid. The Guardian power structure in the tower, for instance, swings strongly in one direction, both in terms of numbers and screen time and character importance. But the numbers are the start of the conversation, and not the end.

Yeah, and this is one part that really annoys me. If I as a writer come up with a story and characters that I love who happen to be leaning a bit, even a good bit, more male (or female?!) then I'm sexist? Eventually the arguments stop being about the treatment of women and become about quota filling. About making sure you have "enough" women. How far do we go with this. When creating a new character (for a work of fiction) should I alway consider making that character a woman before I consider anything else? Because, boiled down, it sound like that's where you are headed. :(

That would be nice. So far the best female characters we've been given have been killed (the Queen) may turn out to be evil (Eris) or have been missing in action for most of the game (Exo Stranger). In their place we've gotten Crota and Oryx. As you say, the entire Hive starts out female, but then the two most important characters from that pantheon we get are male. Any reason we couldn't have been fighting the Taken Queen, mother of Crota? Would that have killed anybody?

The Taken King was opposed by the Awoken Queen in one of the game's longest and most impressive cutscenes. It wouldn't kill anybody, no, but (and this is an honest question so think long and hard about it) is your motive really about the correct treatment and portrayal of women, or is it about simply making the superficial numbers be equal? I think looking at how Destiny has treated its female characters shows that Bungie does not have any problems placing women in positions of power, letting them make independent decisions, or making them capable of leading or fighting. Is 1/3 vs 2/3 really even a blip on the radar compared to that?! Should it be?