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THE MINI POST:: Destiny 2 (Fan Creations)

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:00 (2372 days ago)

Originally I was going to have an epic rebuttal here. A written overview of what I see in Destiny 2. I wanted to make a sequel & rebuttle to my Mega Post. But recently I have found that I no longer have the time to put efforts into such an endeavor. I’ve been building up to have this big post, because, well, I ever the scientist like to double check my self and make sure what I see isn’t some odd quirk to how I was feeling that day or some other bout of human blah blah blah. So I’ve held my thoughts close to my chest. To be fair, I do have some things written down that are at least readable thoughts, and I’ll be adding them here. So while it is in no ways as polished as I would like, this is what I got to do, as I’ve already put time into it, and now I need to cash it out and get on to other things. I hope to show the catalyst of this choice some day. I at least will speak of it in this post.

In Other words ...

Welcome! To!... Thaaaaa!.. Mini Post!



(Japan? Japan. That said… I’m flippn’ PUMPED! This is right dope yo! NO ONE SHOW GRIM III THIS!)

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THE MINI POST:: The TL;DR & ANTI-TL;DR

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:00 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive
edited by INSANEdrive, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:09


My rebuttle to my Megapost. Feels good man. I’m back.

TL;DR – Destiny 2 is good. Just good, which sadly is an improvement. This post is how it could have been better. Destiny 2 is fun. This post is how it could have multiplied the quintessential goal. Destiny 2 is… a step away from Destiny 1’s … Ugh. Destiny 2 is Sanitized. Clean. Imperfect. It’s a game that finally has a foothold on what it is in whole. Now that the Destiny Franchise has feet to stand on, let me show you how I think the Destiny Franchise could eventually run, and hope how it will not fail... again. While these three things are not to be the only set of things I’ll be addressing, (well...now it kind of is) in this text there shall be three interconnected major topics which I would like to note before we truly get started.

  • One, is rethinking game play, and honestly this text is more for us here, we the players, then for anyone who may be reading this at Bungie. I’ve been watching us come into Destiny 2 as if it was Destiny 1. I did it too, both in the beta and early moments of the full vanilla game. In these last few months we have definitely gotten better, definitely noticed things, but I don’t think the Destiny community as a whole realizes what is going on in the whole Destiny 2 gameplay. Honestly, I might not either after all is said and done, but… I’m up for taking that chance. It’s not about power anymore. I’ve been watching people realize the little bits of nuance, but I hope to speed up the realization if I can, presuming what I see is indeed the matter. I want to put my thoughts out here on the digital page. I understand now Bungie, I think. I understand. In this new game style outlook, even a feathers action has weight. It’s not perfect of course, though.

  • Two is the impact of the changes, particularly in the guns, but armor too. This also blends in with number one. Now that randomization of perks is significantly pulled back in Destiny 2, things should have changed that for whatever reason (time?) did not.

  • Third point is organization. This also blends in with number two. There is unsettling clumsiness that exists in Destiny 2, and it’s not just the endgame. I blame Luke. Do I get a pork chop for the trouble? Is that how this works?


In truth, originally I wasn't going to post anything so soon. I was going to wait. See what comes before us in a years time. Yet, I have found myself unable and unwilling to wait for September 2018... obviously.

HERE WE GO!

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THE MINI POST:: Do Light Events Create Lasting Impact?

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:00 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

(A.k.A – Quantity Vs Quality)

I feel guilty. I am about to sit here and preach scripture on how to write a story. I don’t know anything about that! Well, at least I don’t consider myself with having that knowledge. Believe it or not I have never written an epic story before. Weird, right! I’ve never connected words on a page with a heart and a soul that will write themselves into a world I shall only expectedly meet in the collective imagination of metaphor, warning, or shear thrill of escape. Maybe someday I will, but for now all I have to show is my dinky little fan fiction. My fun little attempt at speculating the gaps for my three class of characters between my time in Destiny 1 and the potential of Destiny 2.

Starting with the less then obvious, there was indeed a story in Destiny 1, be it vanilla or expansion. Problem was (and I am simplifying here) that the Destiny 1 Story had about as much impact as a space fart from a lone, world-less star, with only its bent space time for company. Destiny 1 was the story of supporting stories, and not main ones. Pillars, not doors. They supported the world, instead of progressing the world. The Black Garden, Oryx, The Taken King, SIVA. All pillars of the world, things that “exist”, but have no impact. Things happened, THEN we “pushed back”, THEN things stopped happening, THEN Things happened, THEN we “pushed back”, THEN things stopped happening… and THAT is why things tended to be so BORING! “THEN” kills a story. In the end, the story in Destiny 1 was, among all the puffery, nothing more but a mental footnote. Don’t get me wrong, it will be referenced and retconned to give it some sort of purpose, it would be stupid not too. There are gems in those rocks.

Just… intill then. It doesn’t matter. Nothing in any of the Destiny story matters! . . .

. . . And then came the Red Legion and Guul. How, Where, When, Why? I don’t know! It may have been nice to at least have something to work off of, something to care about, as what we got was just some known unknown coming out of nowhere, blowing up all our stuff, and to the stuff they didn’t blow up they tried to take from us. All said, at minimum, the actions have impact. We experienced a loss of a home, our light, and learned to fight from those who know no such grace. So that’s it right? YAY Story! All is fine and dandy right? To quote a certain other mush faced foe, “Were it so easy”.

Impact is a very important step, but each step you take in story is important, and vanilla Destiny 2 stumbled, squandered and even skipped a number of it’s steps. If this was a dance competition, then Destiny 2 started well, tripped, fell, got back up, and while embarrassed tried to make up the difference in the end. An amicable effort, but a loss all the same. Bungie - You can do better. I mean, look, Bungie, I know you already know that. Such is the mantra of every artist ever, but I still feel it needed to be said. You can do better. Just try to not self destruct in the process, eh?

Before I could flush this text out, Cody Miller posted some points about the story and its numerous flaws. Most of it is basically on point with my thoughts as well, so if you want more detail, give it and the collective thread a look. It’s actually pretty good for once. Maybe Cody should be banned more often! ;)

I’m taking the lazy out on this one, I know!

That said I do have a few words to add, briefly mentioned by Cody (See “Tell, don’t show“), simply because of how deeply frustrating this was. There was NO build up. NO hints. Just OMG THERE IS A SUN DEVASTATOR AND THAT’S THE PLOT NOW!?!?!?

"Wait…” I thought. “I thought Guul was the plot point. Where… were did this come from!?" So we have this build up and then it gets redirected and you lose SO MUCH story momentum. You sidelined YOUR MAIN BADDIE! So then, when we did focus BACK on GUUL, it’s all just squandered. I don't CARE! I mean, yes... bad guy. Stop. You...won't getaway with this. And. Stuff.

Way to kill your own story BUNGLE!

I am not the only one who has said this. Nor Cody. I’ve seen it mentioned numerous times across the web. And We ALL missed something. Honestly, this seems to be Destiny twos biggest flaw. NO - not the story, us missing stuff. It’s all there (probably) but we just MISS that WHATEVER is there! I digress. Remember on Titan where we are decrypting the “transmissions” with the CPU we took from the center of the Titan City?



That is where this information comes from. I missed this detail the first two times of gameplay, but the third time – It *Clicked*.

That is a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR story point that simply got glossed over by basically everyone as far as I can tell. The way things were structured didn’t really bring it home.

Ahhh... The power of editing and story structure.

The story also lacks emotional content. I still am not invested in any character. There IS blatantly character with in these characters, sure but – WHY DO I CARE? TO that examples effect, Mass Effect.

Behold! At the end of the day Mass Effect got people to care about their characters. THERE WAS SACRIFICE and PURPOSE! LEAD WITH IT! WORK WITH SOMETHING!...oh and… DON’T SPIRIT CHILD FOR YOUR ENDING! :P

At the end of day, Mass Effect IS one of GAMEINGS UNDEFEATED MASTER CLASS IN CREATING A CHARACTER WORTH CARING ABOUT!

Right now you have characters without hearts. Robots emulating emotion. For example, Asher Mir. The quintessential collage professor asshole. For all intents and purposes, he lost his arm. Well… he didn’t actually LOSE IT, just a part of him instantly became VEX, by some vexing vexy whodahada. There is a lot of underlying strife inside this character. WHY DIDN’T YOU USE IT! You simply dropped us off with an inscrutable sour asshole and didn't give us any storytastic character meat for the trouble. We know only surface amounts, just enough to be annoyed. So gee thanks, that is exactly what Destiny needed (/s). We can GUESS why he is such an asshole, but that's not what we should be doing, in all honesty. Or how 'bout your ever rebellious “uncomplicated” Suraya Hawthorne, who to be fair is one of the more flushed out of the new human characters. I get it, she grew up in the dog eat dog world with the lingering claws of death ever present as a teacher. The best way to live life without rules and so forth. All we need now is some face paint (/s). BUT WE NEED MORE THEN THAT. ALL we have is surface details. We have eggshells for characters. Clichés and Shadows.

In retrospect, this sort of thing has never been Bungies strong suite. All Bungie characters, in all games, serve an archetype. No more, no less. Bungie, if you really want to make Destiny, “Starwars Grade”, you're going to need to match and beat the game that by far came the closest before is got squandered by raw unquestionable stupidity and mismanagement. Mass Effect. I can not think of any other critically acclaimed game RIGHT NOW, that has had the same character impact as Mass Effect, which is why I have bothered to bring it up.

Then there was the after thought that was the "Boss" Battle at the end, plus... whatever that ending was. I mean, it was cool, I think, but...

(This is one of the things I wanted to flesh out more on.)

...and everyone lived happily ever after! Right? That's... how these things work out right? RIGHT!?

(Also Ikora... by saying “I’m not used to being wrong”, you are now dead to me. Turn in your Warlock card, you have been voted off the island. There is no learning if there is no wrong.)

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Bungie: Good at setting, bad at story

by Kahzgul, Monday, October 23, 2017, 14:43 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

There's a TL;DR for ya.

I was going to do some kind of overarching post but you've done an excellent job of compartmentalizing the different areas, and as such I feel like responding in kind is probably better.

Then I was going to post a mega-plot summary of the story so far, but screw that. The real failure here is that storytelling isn't happening. Here's how I define a plot arc: At the end of the arc, one or more of these things happens:

- A character learns something.
- The audience learns something.
- The world has changed.
- A character grows as a person.
- A character is able to see the world differently
- The audience is able to see the world differently.
- A character has an epiphany about the nature of life.
- The audience has an epiphany about the nature of life.

That's it. If none of those things happen, then there was no reason to tell the story. At the end of the story you should not simply be older than when the story began.

Sometimes the story of a video game is as simple as "the audience learned how to solve this sort of puzzle." That's fine. Destiny is full of "the audience learned how to solve the puzzle of putting the crosshair on the bad guy's head." But when it comes to a non-game-mechanics story. A plot of the world of the game story. There isn't one. There are myriad opportunities for some of the characters to learn something - like Ikora, who apparently knows everything already, or cayde, who doesn't take things seriously even when his arm is off, or zavala, who is stoic as his only defining characteristic, or hawthorne, who could totally be teaching guardians what life is like when you don't have light and as a result learn from them about the nature of endless sacrifice (or anything, really), but that entire opportunity is somehow completely missed. You would think that immortals, faced with their own mortality, would learn *something* or experience some kind of *consequence* they did not expect, but that shockingly doesn't happen.

Indeed, the story of Destiny 2 is really the story of how we could have learned to see the world differently, but instead fought tooth and nail to preserve the status quo.

It is a story of Bungie, missing every opportunity to tell a compelling story.

And it's still better than Destiny 1. s. m. h.

----

Counterpoint: Destiny 2 is fraught with storytelling moments, but they don't cleave together in anything resembling coherence.

Let's look at the raid, though. This is a small story. It is a largely inconsequential story. And yet it IS a complete story. The guardians are invited to entertain the emperor with their light, which he finds beautiful. Cool! But in the act of doing so, we learn that the emperor believes he, too, has mastered mortality, and done so by becoming an infinite number of robots. The characters and the audience learned something about him.

And in one of the adventures on Nessus, we learn (as a totally off-hand throw-away line) that the vex cannot simulate the Light. That's a HUGE discovery that is just tossed aside. But damn, that's a little bit of storytelling there.

On Titan we learn that there's something huge under the water. We see something huge under the water (if we look for it - thanks Insane, for that video link - super cool). What is it? I don't know, but I want to! I want to learn more!

And there's the true failing. The threads are sewn and then dropped. Bungie weaves not a tapestry but a series of broken strings. Some picked up later, but most discarded. It is the Lost of video games, except I cared about the characters on Lost.

I think this game's plot is so frustrating because, like nearly every other aspect of the game, it is rife with promise and potential, and yet by and large it remains untapped. There is enough there to stir the passions and set the mind ablaze with creativity, but not enough to satisfy. If only XYZ, we think. If only ABC, then - THEN we would truly LOVE this game.

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Bungie: Good at setting, bad at story

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:11 (2371 days ago) @ Kahzgul
edited by Ragashingo, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:02

You would think that immortals, faced with their own mortality, would learn *something* or experience some kind of *consequence* they did not expect, but that shockingly doesn't happen.

I Disagree.

I believe its the first time you approach Zavala in the new Tower that he talks about how just huddling behind the walls of The City needs to stop and how he plans to look at the good that can be done beyond those walls.

Similarly, Ikora admits that she had grown lazy in her Light and pledges to fight all the harder. There is a real sense there that she regrets not doing enough over the previous years and decades. Regrets not using her Light to its full potential. Ikora’s whole mini-arc in D2 is about that. How she basically ran and hid because she was afraid of dying and how she overcame that fear to help save the day.

Even the random people in the Tower have a new outlook. I cringed the other day as one random woman said something like: “The Titans promised us we’d be safe behind the walls... but we weren’t...”

The things they learn may not be as directly shown as you or I wish, and yeah I agree Destiny 2 could have used a good tragic/heroic death to emphasize the consequences, but please don’t over look the pieces that Bungie did weave into D2.

TL;DR: Absolute statements will always get you in trouble. :)

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Bungie: Good at setting, bad at story

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 15:30 (2371 days ago) @ Ragashingo

You would think that immortals, faced with their own mortality, would learn *something* or experience some kind of *consequence* they did not expect, but that shockingly doesn't happen.


I Disagree.

I believe its the first time you approach Zavala in the new Tower that he talks about how just huddling behind the walls of The City needs to stop and how he plans to look at the good that can be done beyond those walls.

Similarly, Ikora admits that she had grown lazy in her Light and pledges to fight all the harder. There is a real sense there that she regrets not doing enough over the previous years and decades. Regrets not using her Light to its full potential. Ikora’s whole mini-arc in D2 is about that. How she basically ran and hid because she was afraid of dying and how she overcame that fear to help save the day.

Even the random people in the Tower have a new outlook. I cringed the other day as one random woman said something like: “The Titans promised us we’d be safe behind the walls... but we weren’t...”

The things they learn may not be as directly shown as you or I wish, and yeah I agree Destiny 2 could have used a good tragic/heroic death to emphasize the consequences, but please don’t over look the pieces that Bungie did weave into D2.

TL;DR: Absolute statements will always get you in trouble. :)

I dunno. I think this is an "actions speak louder" situation. Ikora, Zavala, Cayde... I really don't think they change or grow as a result of what they say they've "learned" - which tells me that they haven't learned anything.

Zavala is still just standing around in the tower. Okay, he's moved from an interior conference room to an exterior balcony... maybe he learned to like the view? No, no, he's facing away from the outside world. Ikora claims she should have done (something) and is now helping the guardians to meditate on our past journeys (this is actually a really clever way to make the story missions replayable and I am impressed by the effort shown here to make a very video-game mechanic part of the living world), but she's not really doing anything, either. In the very intro mission we have the three vanguards actually doing something to defend the city, but only Cayde really shows up for any action (on nessus, trying to get a teleporter) until the final mission (which was a great way to use them, and I wish it was done more often)... But at no point in time have they changed or grown.

I hear you - they *say* they learned something. But their actions show that nothing has changed. I don't believe Zavala thinks the outside world is worthwhile because he's never in the outside world. He doesn't send you on missions to help the outside world. It's still all about strikes and the same vanguard territory that he always held in D1.

And I get that this is asking a lot from the game designers because, practically, I'm asking them to take their vendors/quest givers and make them mobile or insert them into the game world. I'm kind of ignoring that problem for the sake of discussing the plot of the game in as pure a sense as possible.

And I find that the world and characters of D2 are, at the end of the campaign, by and large identical to before. Which makes me wonder why this particular 'story' was told and what the value of experiencing it first hand was, while experiencing the founding of the city or the fall of the golden age was left off-screen.

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Bungie: Good at setting, bad at story

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 18:17 (2371 days ago) @ Kahzgul

And I find that the world and characters of D2 are, at the end of the campaign, by and large identical to before. Which makes me wonder why this particular 'story' was told and what the value of experiencing it first hand was, while experiencing the founding of the city or the fall of the golden age was left off-screen.

I would say that is largely because those are events that set up the world and don't need to be told. They exist as mythos to create the setting.

But your observations about characters is correct. You can have them say they have learned something, but actions speak louder than words (as does the specific portrayal of them). Maybe the writers don't understand their characters at all. Not the first time it's happened.

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Bungie: Good at setting, bad at story

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 18:25 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I think it’s the other way around. The writers are doing their part to get the right words and dialogue in there. For instance, see the Grimoire. It’s the gameplay that isn’t letting the characters prove what they are saying. In D1, a part of that must have been the disarray that the engine troubles gave Bungie. For D2, at least some part of it might be that there hasn’t been time to show it. Criticizing characters for not showing their new points of view when we’re right at the end of a chapter isn’t entire fair.

Imagine if Ikora takes a more proactive stance in this first expansion. Like, if she takes risks and operates on the principle that just relying on immortality is no longer good enough. I somewhat doubt it will happen. Not as dramatically as I wish it would. But the chance is still there.

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Bungie: Good at setting, bad at story

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 18:50 (2371 days ago) @ Ragashingo

I think it’s the other way around. The writers are doing their part to get the right words and dialogue in there.

You can 'lie' with dialogue. It happens all the time. Characters say one thing, but internalize the opposite thing due to poor writing. A strong characterization is what lets the audience know what is going on inside the character's heads, not what they say. Actions and internalizations first; dialogue second. In fact, as a writer that's how you determine what dialogue to write! What would this character say in this situation based on their wants / needs / personality?

Working backwards gives you flimsy characters and weird motivations.

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Bungie: Good at setting, bad at story

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 19:20 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

There’s been enough good story beats and dialogue through the Grimoire and through D1 and D2 themselves that I believe that the writers do in fact treat the Destiny characters that way. It’s just, Destiny isn’t a book being penned by one person. It’s a huge project trying to serve many goals which it does better at some than at others.

Yeah, there are other games that have better, more personal, more in-depth stories. Destiny is no Life Is Strange or The Last of Us, but at the same time, those games are no Destiny in other ways like FPS gameplay or PvP multiplayer.

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Bungie: Good at setting, bad at story

by Kahzgul, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 22:28 (2370 days ago) @ Ragashingo

There’s been enough good story beats and dialogue through the Grimoire and through D1 and D2 themselves that I believe that the writers do in fact treat the Destiny characters that way. It’s just, Destiny isn’t a book being penned by one person. It’s a huge project trying to serve many goals which it does better at some than at others.

Yeah, there are other games that have better, more personal, more in-depth stories. Destiny is no Life Is Strange or The Last of Us, but at the same time, those games are no Destiny in other ways like FPS gameplay or PvP multiplayer.

The fault of the plot is only partly the writers' fault. I'm sure they did their best within the constraints they were working under. Ultimately, making the plot important and letting the plot inform game design is the job of the lead designers, and I think the Destiny design team has made the technology and gameplay more important than the plot.

Ultimately, I think this is a mistake on several levels. Most of the inspired gameplay I've encountered in my life is either puzzle based (Destiny does this well with their raid mechanics), or has come from using the gameplay mechanics to further the plot (destiny rarely has gameplay that is unique to the plot. D2 is far better than D1 - the story missions contain unique mechanics like the sunlight burning you, or the many times you shoot turbines). These moments where the plot does inform the gameplay are some of the best moments in the game! It's a shame that there aren't more of them, and that there are literally no plot --> gameplay elements in the patrols.

This is, I think, a really big missed opportunity in this game. Having plot happen during exploration, and having that plot inform the gameplay, would have gone a very long way to making the game feel like a living world. Maybe when you first get to the farm, all of the enemies around are fallen, and then later, instead of discovering cabal in a different part of the map, the cabal actually start spawning in where it used to only be fallen. The world would feel more alive.

In any storytelling venture, be it a book, a movie, a video game, or any other form of narrative, making the story more important than the trappings around it is really important. I know this sounds completely obvious, but all too often we see major productions making the plot secondary to a big action sequence or shiny graphics.

To me, video games can often get by on little or no story at all if the mechanics are truly compelling (see: Mario 64, Tetris, State of Decay, Fortnite's pvp mode)., but I feel like Destiny 2 doesn't quite hit the mark. I haven't figured out a good way to explain it yet, but the world of Destiny 2 *needs* a story. It may actually be that because the setting is so rich, the lack of story is just glaring. Perhaps it's that the gunplay is not as rewarding in D2 as it was in D1 and as a result is less compelling? I'm not sure what it is. Whatever the cause, the gameplay is not so compelling that I can forgive the lack of plot.

---

You mentioned that this was, in your esteem, "just a chapter" of a larger story. I think you're probably right, and that Bungie is telling its "10 year story" with this as just a small part of it. And I also think that's a horrible mistake and a disservice to the gamers who buy these games. Each game should tell its own story, as should each expansion pack. Those stories should feed into a larger, overarching narrative that can span several installments (ideally the whole shebang), but the individual components need to play out their own narratives.

As I said before, D2 has legion opportunities to do that, and it takes none of them. As Edison said, "Opportunity knocks all the time, it just wears coveralls and looks like work." Bungie did not do that hard work of making a compelling story worthy of their setting and which would have affected change in the game world, but rather took the easy way out of having the end of the game be essentially the same as the beginning.

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THE MINI POST::The Harmony of Fun

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:00 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

(A.k.A – Prepare to get really sick of me saying "Synergy".)

It’s a week or so before the Destiny 2 launch, and by whatever event of happenstance, data about some of the exotics and perks leak out, and I simply can't help but to take a peak at what impending powerhouse perks we have in store. To say I was underwhelmed is an understatement. “Well it’s not all of them”, I quipped. Yet even when I got my hands on almost all the exotics for my Warlock in the first week (...Yea, I know!...), all in all I found my self really underwhelmed. Even now, like say with my Titan, I’ll occasionally find myself making this mistake. A mistake of, Eh – Actium War Rig seems pretty lame. “Steadily reloads a portion of your equipped Auto Rifle’s magazine from reserves? That’s it? Meh”. A mistake of… where I only considered the face value of a perk and miss these subtle synergies for which I shall speak of below.

For starters, here are some examples from the Warlock Class of exotics and their main gold perk In Destiny 2.

  • Eye of Another World | Cerebral Uplink
    Highlights priority targets and improves the regeneration speed of your grenade, melee, and rift abilities.
  • Winter’s Guile | Warlord’s Sigil
    Eliminating enemies with melee attacks increases your melee damage
  • Lunafaction Boots | Alchemical Etchings
    Your Rifts gain the additional ability to automatically reload allies’ weapons.

Now lets compare that with some Destiny 1 Exotic perks for the Warlock.

  • Light Beyond Nemesis | Keeper of the Pack
    Revive fallen teammates and be revived faster. Supers generate an extra Orb.
  • The Impossible Machines | Lightning Rod
    Unlocks the Stormcaller subclass node Landfall for free.
    On casting Stormtrance, fire a bolt of lightning into the ground, creating a devastating shockwave under you.

  • Transversive Steps | Strange Angles
    Gain faster movement speed while crouching. Picking up ammo automatically reloads the weapon matching that ammo's type.

[image]

Each one of these is a Helm, Gloves, and Boots respectively. Can you see the difference? It should be noted that while this is obviously a small selected sample from a much larger whole, I feel that what I have selected here presents a truth in whole. You see, while the Destiny 1 perks are vast and extremely varied, and even abit more direct, in Destiny 2, perks are far far more subtle. In fact, the most direct of the Destiny 2 examples here, the Winter’s Guile perk of increasing damage of melee, at first glance was for me not all that exciting. I’ll take an extra perk from my subclass tree any day, over a simple melee damage increase – or so I thought. Sheesh. Can you believe that I actually sharded Winter’s Guile when I first got them! *Sigh* Forgive me! I was young and naive! So what this perk fails to mention in detail, is that with in a 4 second count down per melee hit, At X5, these gloves make the Warlock melee do about 2000 damage. That’s a 2000 hp warlock melee. Yea! Once I found this out, I went – OH!? I’ll give them another shot. At that time I was holding firm to Stormcaller, and the gloves were... ok, in very particular situations. But I kept having an issue with running into fire, dieing and losing my stack. 4 Seconds or you lose it all is a very tight timing, and at first I was saying to my self – “the timer needs to be longer on this perk”. I am barely surviving long enough to really get into a groove and keep the stack, as the perk in practice can become an odd sort of hot potato where you fight to keep the stack alive and not die in the process. Keep all that in mind. We’ll be coming back to that.

While on the topic of exotics, I also found that some exotic weapons also had perks where I went; What is this? Why is this considered an exotic? Who would waste their slot with this weapon?

One of the weapons that had me perplexed at first, was “Sterm”. It has a perk where kills would fill Energy Weapon mags. Again, I’m coming from Destiny 1, so in my mind I’m expecting “Rounds pierce targets and cause lingering damage over time”, not ammo reloads, though in retrospect Destiny did have those sorts of exotics as well. In the end it certainly wasn’t anything that excited me. I wasn’t looking forward to this weapon, but I was still intrigued. After all, I can’t talk about the Exotic “Sterm”, without mentioning its Legendary partner, the sidearm called “Drang”. I mentioned in my Not-A-Review that I was not a big fan of sidearms. I still overall am not. Yet the connection, the “Bond”, between these two weapons I found interesting enough to try. To the quick; words alone can not do justice to the fun I had with these two weapons synergy, much like perhaps, the love between Singrun & Victor. Once I got into a battle zen, get into a groove, I simply find my self having a blast with both the Punch of “Sterm” and the frantic tat-tat-tat of “Drang”.

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In my Destiny 2 Beta Not a Review, I also was not kind to the new “load-outs method” for our abilities, and in a way I still think what they have done is far TOO restricting. It is EXTREMELY EXTREMELY frustrating that I can’t change my supers style that would be better in a scenario, because I like the other perks in a load out. Since I use those perks more then the super, it just makes more sense to just deal with it and hope for the best. So now my super is kind of a side note in my calculations in what I should use. Perhaps that is what Bungie wants? Perhaps that is a good thing? I don’t know. I can understand why that would be, but it’s nostalgically sad too. Again, to me it still feels like they went too far, but I can’t help but feel that this was the cost that needed to be made.

[image]

In Destiny 1, everything was the Super, or at least it seemed strongly weighted that way. In Destiny 2, as far as I can tell only a few months in, everything is about synergy. The power fantasy aspect in the game play of Destiny 1, has been replaced with a far more measured calculation of fun. Raw Power is limiting, as you could only go up.

[image]

A Power-Creep of more and more and more, if you will, was the only way to go. I presume that is something Bungie wishes to avoid in Destiny 2. Yet... I, again, kind of lament this loss too. After all, it was fun. Is this the cost of balance? Of true synergy?

So now that everything is set up, lets get to the punchline. You see, between the “loadouts” and the exotics is where the true subtle ingenious game play comes in. This is where the options truly live, not just in one exotic, or ability, but in the combining of said exotic houses and it’s unfortunately not immediately obvious. This is where I hope the future of Destiny is going to go. Period. If it does not, then Bungie will have once again squandered what they have right in front of them. Unless, they somehow have something better in store for us.

In Destiny 2, we are now far better chefs of our game play, as now there are more ways in place to alter it. We have our meat(y guns), potatoes (so armor… some how?), and seasoning emotes, and now we get to combine it all!

I really should have more examples here. :/

  • Actium War Rig seems pretty lame? Add Sweet Business (the Gatling Gun exotic weapon). Boom. Amazing.

  • Going against an extreme amount of adds of all ranks as a Warlock? Devouring Voidwalker + Winter’s Guile and you will rarely need to fire a shot. You will feast, and it will be glorious.

  • I don’t currently have any examples for the Hunter right now. Because Arc Strider. And Raiden Flux. I FUCKING LOVE THIS SUPER! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! … but I digress.

Did I mention how much I love Arc Strider? I did. You sure? ...

Seriously though. I haven’t played around with many of the new Hunter Exotics, short of ones that were also in Destiny 1. When I got “The Dragon’s Shadow”, guess what I did? Sharded it. “This Exotic Sucks!” I said.  Well, now I’m putting it to it’s paces. In Destiny 2, the only way to really figure out if something sucks is to TRY IT! In every which way you can.”

Don’t get me wrong, some of the exotics are still pretty lame as is, as far as I can tell. I mean... I know NOW how very wrong I may be. I’ve seen myself do it. So maybe... I just have not found the combination or scenario to make whatever exotic truly shine yet? Meh. Or it just sucks. Just can’t let go of that option.

In whole, this “Synergy” is why we will come back to keep on playing. GAMEPLAY! Oh… and that is not discount the other reasons to play, like the urge to solve the mysteries of Destiny and peel back the layers of this world. What we have before us is a mini game (weapon synergy), in a game (+ ability/armor synergy), in a game (Destiny #). THAT, in my preview, is the future of Destiny 2 gameplay. Not Shaders. Not Emblems. . . .

Q: You just don't get it, do you, Jean-Luc? The trial never ends. We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And for one brief moment, you did.

Q: ...For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. *That* is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.

THAT. IS. DESTINY. GAMEPLAY. (...and perhaps Destiny in whole as well.)

Yet because of how amazingly subtle this sort of thing is, the many hardcore of us have missed out. Without the cruel and hateful RNG aspect of the Destiny 1 gun system, the community doesn’t know where to put their efforts into in the mean time. It sure as shit ain’t going to be for just Shaders and Emblems. Idiotic!

Now I can already hear some of ya.

So… that’s it? The Future of Destiny gameplay is builds? Uh – Newsflash! WE HAD THIS IN DESTINY 1 TOO!

[image]

TO which, yes. In a way, this is true. Yet the GOAL of those Builds HAD to be – POWER. Why? Because if you didn’t you wouldn't be effective in the game for any end game play. There were growth problems. It made larger portions of the games kit moot, which in some ways I think will always be an issue due to the nature of the beast. I see the ability for a larger complexity that can be created in Destiny 2, and this is because it is no longer just about power. It’s about game-play synergy. Gameplay must be king, and nothing else. Power is an ELEMENT of the gameplay. I hope you get the jest of my observation here. You can make something you find fun, AND BE EFFECTIVE. Forgive me if this is presumptuous, but YOUR GOAL should be FUN. I think that is why we waste away our time in front of whatever screen we choose. Video games are fun. If you are not having fun. Why are you “playing”? (Does it even count as play?)

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THE MINI POST:: The Struggle of Infinity Vs. Finite

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:00 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

(A.k.A – Who is playing who?)



The struggle is real. To RNG or to Not RNG – THAT is the question!

No. It’s not.

Our brains, for as incredible as they are, are still rather stupid. I myself have only grown smart enough to know how stupid I am, so that’s been fun. Just like water, the human heart also tends to run down hill to its basest instincts. We want to be lazy, it saves energy. But as always – Dosage. That’s where the poison is. This difference between a problem solver and sloth.

Yes, I could have just said that the Bungie designers seem to be trying to find the sweet spot to RNG elements, but I ask you dear reader, WHERE IS the Fun In THAT! Do you truly find this bout of disjointed preaching less enjoyable!?

Alright, fine, we’ll try it your way and do the direct approach. Ugh. I’m imagining you to be ever so picky. EVER SO PICKY! You MONSTER! :P

The amount of RNG made Destiny 1 artificially harder for both casual and hardcore alike. In Destiny 1, RNG was a god; an RNGesus if you will. Who lives and who dies, and how. You “Needed” to play to get the best kit, so you could have fun. Let me say that again… YOU "NEEDED" TO PLAY, and keep playing, TO GET THE BEST KIT. This, in no uncertain terms, was utter unfulfilling insanity. People played something they hated, so that they could love it. I don’t know about you all, but that sounds like an abusive relationship to me. Oh! The excuses we used to tell. The door hit me! I fell! Oh goodness I’m such a klutz, I love you RNG, thank you for my BLAH with Blah (*Shard*). RNG decided not only what you got to play with, but how (effective it was) and when. RNG was a controlling ASSHOLE! That’s not to say that a users own skill didn’t come in to play in an end result, but if you got dropped by or watched another player slay with… say… Hacksaw, Matador 64, Hung Jury, or Qullim's Terminus then there was a chance it was because they had RNG’ed a perk you didn’t have. Why does this matter? Well, remember that synergy thing? Here I’ll remind you.

In whole, this “Synergy” is why we will come back to keep on playing. GAMEPLAY! Oh… and that is not discount the other reasons to play, like the urge to solve the mysteries of Destiny and peel back the layers of this world. What we have before us is a mini game (weapon synergy), in a game (+ ability/armor synergy), in a game (Destiny #). THAT, in my preview, is the future of Destiny 2 gameplay. Not Shaders. Not Emblems.

Instead of YOU choosing how to play, the game was, and even Bungie couldn't control it fully. That made for problems. Thanks to the game being SO RNG based, you could put time into something and – for your play style - get nothing out of it. In short, a slot machine. This created, or at least was a factor in, the mind numbing grind of Destiny 1.

The result of this grind was abit of a gameplay mosh pit. How do you balance that? As fun as the “sweet hit”-jolt moment of a “God Roll” were, I bet in retrospect Bungie had a hell of a time balancing all of that, back-end controls not withstanding. Just because you had fun in a lone moment does not mean the overall game-play economy is sound. Fun, I presume again, in the end is our main goal to all this effort to play with bunch of... ya’ll weirdos (:P)... around the world. We’re having fun, or at least trying for it. If you have to try to have fun, are you?

It’s not just weapon perks though, as even with just the raw guns, RNG was like poison to who could play what as well. To that effect, Gjallarhorn, glorious as it was… poison! A glorious poison? That should be name of a “Prism” gun. Probably for a “Prism” rocket launcher. I call DIBS on the first hands on! … I digress.

This was because the goal was no longer the game. It was exploiting the rules of the game. Why? Because we’re lazy, and breaking the rules is what we do… oh so well. We are so stupid good at it. Early on, you could not get into a raid among the randoms, or even to some degree here, unless you had Gjallarhorn. It should have never of come to this.

In the end it all just spiraled into an obsessive dark of “gotta have it”. I hear the Darkness was personally witnessing all this. Many tryhards... died ...to bring us this information.

*Deep Breath*

It’s just. A Game.

It. Doesn’t. Matter.

You power off the game device – Poof. It’s Nothing.

It’s just a game. And it doesn’t matter.

Thus in Destiny 2, the Weapon Designers of Bungie decided the we should have all weapons with a fixed set of perks. For example: The Pistol “Better Devils” is just like all other “Better Devils”. It has Adaptive Frame, Same 3 Sight Perks, Same 2 Mag Perks, and le plat principal présentée sans autre délai, Explosive Payload.

As it turns out through, even the direct approach isn't without its problems. The trade off is for now, a large decrease in the number of guns with unique “feels” and styles of play. Yet we gain far more control to how the game plays for us. I find myself saying it again; as unfortunate as it is that there has been such a decrease of permutations, it is indeed for the best.

It’s probably why Bungie did it. Right?

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. I’ve seen the Destiny Reddit. Bungie Hates its fan base! GET REKD SCRUB!

[image]

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I disagree with a fundamental part of this.

by Funkmon @, Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 06:11 (2370 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

In Destiny 1, you did need to keep playing to get the best stuff, in much the same way you need to keep working to make more money. This is good.

In Destiny, you could play a lot and eventually get really good stuff.

In Destiny 2, you play a lot and get literally no better things than someone who plays almost none at all. This is bad.

No matter how much effort you put in, you don't get anything extra.

That's my opinion.

I disagree with a fundamental part of this.

by marmot 1333 @, Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 10:28 (2370 days ago) @ Funkmon

In Destiny 1, you did need to keep playing to get the best stuff, in much the same way you need to keep working to make more money. This is good.

In Destiny, you could play a lot and eventually get really good stuff.

In Destiny 2, you play a lot and get literally no better things than someone who plays almost none at all. This is bad.

No matter how much effort you put in, you don't get anything extra.

That's my opinion.

But is that even true? In D1 if you weren't playing the right activities and you weren't always wearing your highest-power gear, you wouldn't get the best stuff, and even if you were playing the right activities, you still only had an RNG chance to get the things you wanted.

In D2 it is much easier to collect all the things and then upgrade all the things, giving you more selection of which high-power tools you want to use. At various points in D1 I had the opportunity to upgrade a very, very small selection of things, and I had to wear my highest power things if I wanted to keep getting better things. I wasn't a fan of that--it felt limiting.

In D2 if you play a lot, you get lots of things, so you would have a wider selection of gear to choose from than someone who plays almost none at all. In other words, I disagree with you.

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I disagree with a fundamental part of this.

by Funkmon @, Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 14:24 (2370 days ago) @ marmot 1333

In Destiny 1, you did need to keep playing to get the best stuff, in much the same way you need to keep working to make more money. This is good.

In Destiny, you could play a lot and eventually get really good stuff.

In Destiny 2, you play a lot and get literally no better things than someone who plays almost none at all. This is bad.

No matter how much effort you put in, you don't get anything extra.

That's my opinion.


But is that even true?

Yes.

In D1 if you weren't playing the right activities and you weren't always wearing your highest-power gear, you wouldn't get the best stuff, and even if you were playing the right activities, you still only had an RNG chance to get the things you wanted.

Correct.


In D2 it is much easier to collect all the things and then upgrade all the things, giving you more selection of which high-power tools you want to use. At various points in D1 I had the opportunity to upgrade a very, very small selection of things, and I had to wear my highest power things if I wanted to keep getting better things. I wasn't a fan of that--it felt limiting.

That's where you're wrong. I don't want to use any guns in Destiny 2.

In D2 if you play a lot, you get lots of things, so you would have a wider selection of gear to choose from than someone who plays almost none at all. In other words, I disagree with you.

I have played almost none at all, and I have all the guns anybody else has with the exception of a few exotics. I agree with me.

I disagree with a fundamental part of this.

by marmot 1333 @, Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 15:40 (2370 days ago) @ Funkmon

In Destiny 1, you did need to keep playing to get the best stuff, in much the same way you need to keep working to make more money. This is good.

What do you mean by the best stuff? Gear you like, or the power of the gear? In D1 I frequently had gear I liked but it was not high enough level to allow me to be effective in the activities I wanted to play.

In D2 it is much easier to collect all the things and then upgrade all the things, giving you more selection of which high-power tools you want to use. At various points in D1 I had the opportunity to upgrade a very, very small selection of things, and I had to wear my highest power things if I wanted to keep getting better things. I wasn't a fan of that--it felt limiting.


That's where you're wrong. I don't want to use any guns in Destiny 2.

That's a different point. It follows that if there aren't any guns you want, you're never going to get any guns that you want.
I prefer the D2 system of having more opportunites to upgrade more gear, instead of having to choose a precious few objects to infuse. There are quite a few guns I enjoy using, and I feel like there is more of a chance for me to give everything a shot because it is easy to upgrade something if I end up liking it.

In D2 if you play a lot, you get lots of things, so you would have a wider selection of gear to choose from than someone who plays almost none at all. In other words, I disagree with you.


I have played almost none at all, and I have all the guns anybody else has with the exception of a few exotics. I agree with me.

Hmm. I've played quite a bit and there are still legendaries and exotics that I don't have.

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I disagree with a fundamental part of this.

by cheapLEY @, Thursday, October 26, 2017, 10:09 (2369 days ago) @ marmot 1333

Hmm. I've played quite a bit and there are still legendaries and exotics that I don't have.

The Destiny Sets site that was just posted did a good job of highlighting all the stuff I haven’t tried yet.

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THE MINI POST:: Glory Organization is Boring

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:01 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive
edited by INSANEdrive, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:04

(A.k.A – The World of Destiny is Science Fiction, not Fantasy.)

Note: I still don’t think I conveyed my thoughts well enough with this. If I had the time, I would have made the wording for this far more precise, and fleshed out my words abit more. I hope at the very least, you get the jest of my thoughts. Even if that is... abit literal in this case. :P

The TL;DR of this section – I think the Organization problem is actually in part, an Economy problem. It’s Tricky!

Bread, Cabbage, Catch, Chips, Dough, Haul, Kale, Loot, Pilferage, Prize, Scratch, Take, or even good ‘ol fashioned ARRRRRR! TO JA’ TRESAURE LADS! LAST ONE THERE TELLS NO TAILS! ARRRRR! *Hardy Boisterous Laughter*

Then everyone dies of scurvy. The end.

Regardless your preferred jargon (or hunger) with whatever sort of play that has filled your “backpack” with the finite spoils of a guardians infinitude of conflict, at the end of the day all roads lead to the same problem in the Vault. What do I keep? What do I shard? Worse still, once you accrue a sizable amount of stuff, how to organize and retrieve said stuff? It becomes an effort into its self that gets in the way of playing the game.

So here is a peak behind the curtain here. You get to read a discussion with my self. You Hacker.

Why do we shard guns and armor? Why is that a thing? Repeat objects. Ok. Why Are Repeat objects still a thing? We used to get RNG on some of the items, now we don’t. Yea. Now we don’t. Once you get something, why do you get it again? Well I need to increase my light. You can do that with any matching gun or class armor type. Does that truly require repeat items? In the end it’s all just light in another form of currency. Make light a currency accrued from playing. Every time you level up a faction… oh wait… we already have that. But it’s in the form of Guns & Armor. This is messy, as I’m not keeping some of my weapons and armor for USE, but for LIGHT. Then I forget, and why is this here, and … If we go that route, we'll run into a wall. Bungie can only make so much content so fast, even with the numbers.That is why the synergy is so important, it changes one thing into multiple things. Why do I feel a Guardian Apartment joke brewing? RESET

How bout if I get something, show me if I have it already anywhere in my account, and if it’s a higher or lower light level... What? Don't be complacent. What you’re suggesting isn't a fix it's a patch to make things hurt less, but you keep the problem. Cure the Disease, not the Symptoms. What if we get a “raw light” upgrade token for the weapon? I don’t want another “currency”.WE ALREADY HAVE THE CURRENCY! It's the form that is causing the problem. It's the multiple uses! THAT is what the ISSUE is! THAT is where the confusion is coming from. Ah! Forgetfulness creating a sensation of overwellment in the use, whom, not wishing to partake in the time to figure out the efforts before the indievidual, becoming seduced under the allors of the lowest common denominator. What? Glory Organization is Boring. In the end we need to free up the collection aspect here, unless Bungie wants to double down on the “RPG” aspect. RESET

disconnectReasonByServer (3 (0x3))
disconnectReasonDecryptionError (3078 (0xC06))
disconnectReasonEncryptionError (2822 (0xB06))
disconnectReasonInvalidEncryption (1286 (0x506))
disconnectReasonGetHostByNameFailed (1540 (0x604))
disconnectReasonMentalServerDisconnected (1337 (1Lk=539))

Sorry Bub. If you stay in there too long, you'll get lost with the rest of the maddness. Had to pull ya out without warning.

Originally I had THIS look of text for the green above, but since I'm using it to interject into my own post, well, I had to change it. I was going to have a whole thing in this section in this style. Oh well. So as it goes.

The world of Destiny is based on a so called loot game. Thus I ask, why is it so ill conceived on our ability to organize? It’s like making a shooter with lousy gun play. Worse still, since Destiny is made to be played as a “world you can come back to”, and keep playing and keep playing and keep playing; the more you play, the worse it gets. As far as it seems to me, the organizational aspect should have been a tier one critical issue for Destiny 2 as is the gun play in Destiny 2.

Now, to be fair, what we have as a Destiny 2 vault is an improvement over the Destiny 1 vault, but, again, the improvement also highlights more intensely the flaws. We have 200 slots to put WHATEVER we want. This is an improvement. In Destiny 1, the vault was segmented, you could only put in X amount for Weapons, Armor, and Other. So if you rarely used the armor slot, but heavily used the gun slot… Well Gee! I wish I could use all this extra space I’m not using for armor.

So now you have 200 slots for whatever you wish. That problem is fixed but, as it goes, a new issue arises. In short – Clutter. Even through we have the option to switch through Default (A.K.A – No Organization?), Newest (When you put it in your vault), and Rarity (Exotics up front, Common in the back... ugh, Shut up brain), it’s still a real hassle to understand what your options are in game-play. TO find what you seek at a glance. In truth, I don’t really know what I have in my vault right now. No, I’m not saying like “What Gun”, through that element is true, I’m saying GAMEPLAY.

It has been my observation, that until the gun is in your hands, or armor embraces your shoulders, all those numbers don’t mean SHIT for the whole. Remember the theme of this entire thing you see written before you? SYNERGY SYNERGY SYNERGY! The numbers are a one off for that one thing, NOT your whole kit. Plus, I can forget. I want to be able to stop playing Destiny 2 for whatever time I wish, and come back, and pick up where I left off. I have no way of noting to my self what works with what. I mean, I guess I could write it down with a quill, but honestly, I don’t want to care that much. I just want to sit down and just play.

Also… I don’t have a quill. Kermit, can I barrow yours if the need arises?

This all goes back to The Harmony of Fun. Synergy. I may be sitting on some amazing game-play experiences, but when I open up my vault, I kind of … nope out. I didn't want to clean my room when I was 5. I still don't! BUNGLE PLS! :P (LOL)

Now here is what I am concerned is going to happen. Destiny is going to become a collection game. While yes, this would free things up, doing so ... it's all about the focus. If Destiny 2 becomes a collection game, it will change the focus. How do you minimise what I mentioned in The Struggle of Infinity Vs. Finite from occurring?

If only I had the time to fill this out more.

  • The “Collections” Tab:
    • Gets things out of the way. If it’s in collections I can always go back to it.
    • Peace of Mind - OH I DELETED IT! Oh wait. I can go back into Collections and level it back up.
    • It's a quick fix. Doesn't mean it's the best for all things, though I can't help but say it sure FEELS like it would be. I feel an urge to say "Just make everything part of Collections".
    • That Said - I do miss Ships and Sparrows being part of Collections. I only NEED one. The rest are just filling up space needlessly. Perhaps that mindset is how we figure out what gets the Collections treatment, and what doesn't?
    • I’ve been debating if Modifications & Transmat Effects would go here too. I’m so tired of these things filling up my post master. I don’t use them that much, if at all.
    • Anything that can be purchased with Bright Dust should be in the collectible slot to-… ah shoot. Ya see what I mean! "Just make everything part of Collections". >_< It’s a TRAP!
    • I told my self I was going to say nothing about the Shaders. Ha Ha! Mission Accomplished!

  • If I could, I would keep all these guns and armors on my person. Unfortunately, there is a limited number of slots so I have to be picky. Bungie? Why do you have the “Destroyer of Worlds” Quest, or really any of those exotic quests steps using up one of my slots? Bungie, I know you know how important screen real estate is. Well the same is true for my slots. What in the world are ya doin’?

  • Yet there is another problem too, as the system as it exists now makes it harder to create the fun, unless I use a third party app, or really anything outside the gamespace. Just as I had implied with grimore in my Mega Post, that’s bad. Period.


I mean seriously... these are just blurbs of ideas. Unfortunately that's as far as I got with this part. Which is too bad. The Vault isn't the only issue, just the most obvious. I was going to have a whole thing about the items on our person, and talk about the impact of the 3rd party options. Maybe I'll cheat and give one more of this sort of post about,'cus it's rather big. Imagine this. This scheme would be unlockable (as it wouldn’t make sense for a level 9, for example). Each slot has a Main & Secondary. In main you can have up to six exotics, three legendary (one for each type). In Secondary, you have 9 slots for whatever. Stuff like that, stuff that I would need time to flesh out. What we have right now was good for Destiny 1, but it’s lousy for Destiny 2.  Anyway, this was the last of the BIG THREE stuff I wrote down. The next bit is abit less enlightening, and abit more wish-fulfillment in it's current, now posted beta-w.i.p-form.

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THE MINI POST:: Soapbox of Blades (Beta)

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:01 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive
edited by INSANEdrive, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:04

(A.k.A – There is no such thing as too many .gifs)


As a Warlock Main, I’m Furious! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! TO THINK BUNGIE WOULD DARE! Alright, so I’m gettin’ on this soapbox, because this bothered me. In short, Warlock me felt jipped in this department. Of all the things that… alright Eff it. I’ve made this long enough. What is it!? What is it that made INSANEdrive say:”As a Warlock Main, I’m Furious! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! TO THINK BUNGIE WOULD DARE! Alright, so I’m gettin’ on this soapbox, because this bothered me. In short, Warlock me felt jipped in this department. Of all the things that… alright Eff it. I’ve made this long enough. What is it!? What is it that made INSANEdrive say...”

:P

Swords. (As if the dozen or so gifs below didn't distract you into the obvious.)

It’s swords. Not just any swords mind you, its the class exclusive ones. They have cool attributes to them – BUT THEY AREN'T EXOTIC. As such, they are simply some of the most fun weapons in the game to use.

--------------Hunter--------------

[image][image]

With “Quickfang”, the Hunter “katana” is all about speed and is made to truly embellish that. Not only does using it impart a unique “ninja cliché” running animation for this one sword – which I swear somehow makes using this weapon 1000X more fun, but also has the perk “En Gard”, which gives a damage boost when you switch to it. SO much fun.

[image] [image]

--------------Titan--------------

[image][image]

With “Crown Splitter”, which admittedly looks abit like The Master Sword, is the Titan Claymore Broadsword, is all about Power. It currently is the ONLY sword with a “Aggressive Frame”. This sword also has a unique animation, where the Titan SLAMS the sword to… well… “Crown Splitter” with AOE damage. Very cool.

[image][image]


--------------Warlock--------------

Then there is “Eternity’s Edge”, the Warlock Sword. It’s blue. And gold. It’s blue and gold. It, in all honesty is a right good sword. Good perks and all, but there is no reason why this sword is Warlock only. It is not a “THAT IS SO A WARLOCK SWORD”. Unlike the other classes, there is no animation, or really any thing fancy about it other then the surface looks. So then it’s blue. And… and gold. SO. Yea?

As a Warlock Main, I’m Furious! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! TO THINK BUNGIE WOULD DARE! Alright, so I’m gettin’ on this soapbox, because this bothered me. In short, Warlock me felt jipped in this department. Of all the things that… alright Eff it. I’ve made this long enough. What is it!? What is it that would make INSANEdrive say: “THAT IS SO A WARLOCK SWORD”

Hunters are Stealthy & Speedy, Titans are Hard Hitting & Powerful, so I'm thinking Defensive & Disciplined. So what kind of sword would be best with this? No-no, Swords.

[image][image]

Double Scimitars or Dao swords, through I'm personally more for the Scimitars as the curved blade would make for a better silhouette. Unlike the other two, wielding these weapons means the the Warlock can't use Grenades or a Class Ability while welding, and single strikes are comparatively weak by default but very very distracting with the amount of damage it could absorb and then inflict back - which by the way would have a unique animation for. Or even, Keep damage low and have the absorbed damaged add to the ammo. Either way... sounds like fun, and it would have it's own style of play.

[image][image]

Defend, Build Damage, Attack, Repeat.

[image]

You miss? It resets. So don't miss.

[image]

Ok... that's enough of all this. Yes, of COURSE the .gifs were totally necessary. Duh. >_>

THE END?

|||Cat Tax|||
[image]

Seriously though. This is all the stuff I had written down. There would have been more, but I have other things, far more important things I need to spend my time on. I thank you for reading all of this (presuming that is what you just did).

Let me know your thoughts of this and all the past parts of this Mini Post in the comments. Thank You ALL! :D

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THE MINI POST:: ADDENDUM & EXTRAS

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:01 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive
edited by INSANEdrive, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:05

I simply couldn’t let my self click *Ok - Submit* before I added this stuff-o-thoughts here. You see, some things I had made with a purpose. For future topics which I hoped to put in my post here. Things that I now am no longer to use. Further more, since this will probably be the last of these sorts of posts I make for the foreseeable future, well, it’s now or nothing I guess. So for this portion of the post, I had most of my brains quality control team go home, and left a skeleton crew in its place. This content is less balanced in thought, and is possibly more along the lines of rant/salt/standard internet blah blah blah. Ok, so it might not be THAT bad. This part of the post in whole (not including linked or embedded content) was made in the last 48 hours. So here it is.


Picture Dump

These pictures are questions, snapshots of time, and yes, a beauty shot or two.

Don’t ask me where I got the tank from.

https://imgur.com/a/WGHk1

[image][image][image]
[image][image][image]

Lost Sectors

This was going to be a HUGE portion of my original intended post. Now it’s a footnote to simply let know what could have been. Heh… in other words, Lost Sectors. These spaces are so underutilized it may be artistically criminal. The world art in a number of these spaces are, as per usual, stunning. The Gameplay? Less so. Right now it’s patrol with extra steps. Oh I CAN’T WAIT FOR MY BLUE ENGRAMS!...said no one ever.

As an artist, it’s obvious that there is so much room to have unique specialized game play experiences and STORY, in these spaces. Basically – Lone Wolf Public Events, but it’s more about DISCOVERY! RECLAIMING OUR LOST WORLDS! You know, that ol’ chestnut. Something that really brings it out of the norm. Fallen jumping around on walls, and climbing out of drainage pipes. Interrupting a Hive ceremony, who knew they could dance? Watch, then interrupt, the Vex conversion of a space.

They don’t all need to be HUGE events, but there should always be that chance that you took more of a chance then you should have. There should always be a chance that YOU OVER DID IT. You took the chance, and now you, be it alone or with a team, are about to be overwhelmed. THERE NEEDS TO BE DANGER FOR THE IMMORTAL! There should be times where RUNNING AWAY is preferable, indeed, best option. Or at minimum, you die, your ghost gets you out of there. No prize for you today. You go back in, it doesn’t matter, it’s something else or nothing at all.

To be advertised as it was, it just needs to be so much more. You know that Bungie, you have NO excuse now. In part because of the first video in the playlist above showing a…. well. Let’s call it a Lost Sector. Indeed. … then go on our merry way.

Also… Why were “Lost” Sectors already on my map? Shouldn’t those locations be find-able, then placed, or a hint bought from Cade? You know, something to play up the whole… and I may be reading in to this too much, uh… LOST thing!?

So Lonely

Abit of a tie-in with the above, but since I’ve been saying this since Destiny 1 (though I’m not sure I’ve written it here before), it’s own section it goes. There are few things sadder, lonelier, and just pulls you out of the world quicker… then seeing some rando in PVE, unified by circumstance of the surrounding, and then you hit a checkpoint and poof.

It’s just… so sad. :/


The Tractor Cannon

The Exotic Shotgun “Tractor Cannon” IS FUCKING AMAZING! It’s not about damage, it’s just about FUN! It’s a Blast (pun intended) to use! That said… having this GLORIOUS tool of RAW FUN ammo gated is a crime against fun. Why don’t I get ammo from kills! Or Maybe an Ice Breaker regen. Something. ANYTHING! Just ammo wise, right now, it’s a TRAVESTY how quick ammo disappears from this weapon. It becomes empty WAY too quickly. I need more. I NEED MORE! O_O

One of the reasons for this may be, that as this power weapon is more of an add equalizer, instead of any sort of HEAVY damage dealing wunderkind that we are used to in this slot. As a result it’s use case is different from most other weapons in the power slot. So in turn there is less heavy being dropped. BUNGIE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE FIX, SO I CAN GET MY FIX! I NEED! I NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED! D:

AW SHOOT….MY CAP LOCK IS BROKE AGAIn, there we are. :P

PvP as it is Right Now

Look, I’m the PvE guy. I don’t have a long history of PvP when it comes to Destiny. For me, unless it was the Multiplayer Mode Mayhem, Destiny 1 PvP was… ugh. Yet, when it comes to Destiny 2 PvP, it has been by far some of the most fun I’ve had in PVP in a looooooooooooooong time. I’ve seen all the posts saying otherwise. That Destiny 2 PvP is the worst ever, essentially. I don’t think I have enough clout or experience in this mode to say this is wrong. All I can say is, I have had fun. Occasionally I jump in to PvP to play a game or two. Preferably with my Hunter, which also seems to be a No-No right now. I don’t know.

I’ve had fun in Destiny 2 PvP as it is. Right now. Take that for what you will.


Local Vs World

Something something gizmo pivot point something?

[image]

BUG REPORT!

I’m not sure what happened. On October 5th I was playing some Multiplayer, the game ended. I pressed Y to go to orbit, as I needed to get up from my seat and do something. When I came back, well, I wasn’t in orbit. I finally forced obit after deciding that there would be no respawning.

Oh… and speaking of bugs…

The things you get to see the day or two after launch. Or more.

*Yawn* Oh… right. Um. This should be a Descriptor. … Yea we’re good.

Oh. And there is one more thing I want to add here, because it just bothers me so gosh darned much. If you read my "Not-A-Review", you may already know what I'm about to rant about.

Before I do go full rant, know that I KNOW what I see on this side, and how things are on the other side is greatly disconnected. Someone on the other side may very well have been thinking the same thing, but time and technical requirements make this the best choice. VFX are expensive, and with some of the maddness I have seen filling the screen VFX wise, they have done a right good job in Destiny 2 with efficiency it seems to me. It’s probably why they didn’t ribbon out (or what have you) a dragon line of fire for example. As of yet, videogame VFX does not have the practically inifnite head room like those in VFX for movies. Someday. Someday.

[image]

One of the things I wanted to show, and not tell, but decided my efforts in time were better elsewhere, was the VFX of the Solar Warlock super. The cast particle of the super being that which fills me with the greatest ire. That’s not to say they aren't created well, of course they are. But the idea in practice is very underwhelming. Wings of fire? Cool. Flaming Blade? Badass. ... and that's about it.

In short, it doesn’t feel powerful. At. ALL. It feels SO SO weak to me. It’s just a lousy lousy super. In my Not-A-Review, I referenced Hawk Girl. That was more the overall archetype. How it plays. This is simply how it looks. What would I do to make it better? Magneto that shit, but with fire.

[image] [image] [image]

Look at that. Look how simple, yes, utterly BAD ASS that is. You use the Warlocks Arc animation in movement (when not actually "flying"), mesh particles swirling around like you're some sort of atom, put that on fire, which is probbably some of Glenns amazing shader work. Add a flaming tail or two. Then when you cast, you point your blade menacingly and swing bursts of 5 to 7 flaming bolts of explosive AOE hellfire.

[image][image]

*FOOOSH! FOOSH! FOOSH! KBOOOM! FOOSH! FOOSH! KBOOOM! FOOSH! KBOOOM! KBOOOM! KBOOOM!*

Then after that, there is a little after particles of glowing melted, plasma like decals that evaporate away into the smoke. The ground hisses and sizzles and crackles and groans as entropy absorbs the leftovers of thermal energy left in the ground.

Yes I know the standard is to doodle it out, but I ain't putting those on the internet. No SIR or MADAM! Lives would be on the line. :P

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This next part, is very personal. My Destiny 2 thoughts, or at least what I was able to make of it, is now concluded. SO let's finish this. I have so much work to do, so that I may in the end have play to do.

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||About me in the Real word: Stories to tell and Choices to make||

Needless to say, I’ve been dreaming then wishing then ultimately trying for years to get into the games industry. To get into a Studio that won’t treat me and my time on this earth like cattle, that pays me well per location, and ultimately lets me live life. See the world. So on, so forth, so goes the dream. Yet all these efforts have been stymied in these last few years, as I have been unable to make a proper demo reel to prove my mettle and generalist know-how to those who employ. That has changed recently. The DEMO REEL is EVERYTHING. It is the ultimate Diploma of the Creative Industries, as the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Good work is good work.

Years ago I made the choice where instead of finishing my Bachelor's degree, I instead chose to act on a-once-in-a-life-time-opportunity. It is this opportunity that has “given” me through my sleepless blood-sweat-and-tears, my all encompassing generalist knowledge for practically all things games and movies. Yet I have been unable to capitalize on it intill now.

Now the opportunity exists where I can prove what I know with a Modern Demo Reel. Including the time spent to improve my creation skills even more, and little "experiments" and "projects" that I've wanted to do for a decade, well... this is where my free time needs to go. Free time that I'd been using to make this text above.

There is more. Some of my reviews I’ve placed so much effort into have been done with an ulterior bonus motive as part of my backup plans, just in case the resources I needed continued to elude me. One out of a number of backup plans, in fact. My main job I seek, flat out requires a Demo Reel. No way around it. Even with the people I know, who know of me in the industry, or who could vouch for me, could do me no more but inside advice due to... the HIGH demand and difficulty of entry. At the end of the day, I just needed an alternative method to get my foot in the door to change my stars. Since I am not some one trick pony, I had other options to pursue. There are other jobs, other then the one I seek, within the video games industry to which I know or feel I would do well. Jobs where the content of the Demo Reel is… different.

I’m a problem solver, it’s what I do. I do it within myself, I’ve done it for others, and I’d love to get paid for what I do without effort anyway. I found my self with skills I couldn't show, so I had no choice but to tell. I was not and am not delusional to the unlikeliness of this purported textual backup plan actually working though. And of course... this isn't exactly the most IDEAL industry standard of methods, but it's what I had to work with. I want it, dam it. I used what I had before me at the time, and you only need to get lucky once. Apparently. I have and in this referenced case... had... the internet, a keyboard, and a madly creative imaginative mind. All in all, necessity is the mother of invention, and crazier shit has worked before. I had nothing to lose, but to never try, which is not my modus operandi. Desperation may have had a hand too.

So... all this is to say that this may very well be my last “Chunk” of a review. That’s not to say you won’t see me post and be a picky bastard, that comes standard I’m afraid (:P),  just... that instead of months of back and forth consideration and holding things close to my chest, I’ll be shooting more from the hip. I'll be joining you lot in the threads instead of making my extensive own. And... no doubt... I'll be making those errors shooting from the hip will make.

Most of these sort of posts that I make get very little input. I have no idea, ulterior bonus motive or not, if anyone really reads these things. If anyone is even able to... “part the reeds” of my ever particular “island made” vernacular.  So either it’s because no one reads it, no one disagrees enough to post, or because no on can get through it. I don’t know, I just had to try. But I’m thankful there was a place of… occasional maturity (:P)… where I could bring my thoughts to light. At the very least, this has been very fruitful practice in getting my thoughts out of my diamondium skull and onto this ever-sort o’ page.

The struggle is real, but I know I will do it. It’s the making it happen sooner then later part that's been really doing me in, as I’m defiantly in the later territory at this point. At least, it sure feels this way.

So that’s that. These are the thoughts I was able to get on the page, and why I have stopped. I thank you for your time. I thank you for your understanding. I thank you... for reading my long reads. You survived. Good work! In the end I hope I helped… with…. Whatever good. Help you see things you might have missed.

I'm an artist. It's... what I do.

\\ ٩( ᐛ )و // See you Starside! ٩(•̤̀ᵕ•̤́๑)ᵒᵏᵎᵎᵎᵎ

I tried. Really, I tried.

by Claude Errera @, Monday, October 23, 2017, 11:10 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

You say, in the last of these posts, that you rarely get any response, and you're not sure if that's because you haven't connected, or because nobody could get through your posts. Speaking only for myself, I'd have to say it's probably the latter. :(

I really tried, here. I opened all of them. I made an honest effort to read them. They're super-obtuse, though, and by the third one or so, I actually found myself getting annoyed by the obtuseness - as though you were doing it on purpose, to make it harder to understand what you wanted to say.

There are lots of references to things I've never seen before (or maybe things I just don't recognize) - with zero explanation. This means that I have no clue what you're getting at - because not only is the reference only relevant if you've seen the original, but you make ZERO EFFORT to explain it for people who might not understand it. (I get that you're doing this because explaining the reference sort of ruins it - but not having any clue what you're saying also ruins it.)

Even without the outside references, though, I was struggling. You write in a stream-of-consciousness style that almost requires that I be inside your head to be able to follow - except I'm not inside your head. You also link back to old (sometimes years-old) discussions with no summaries; if I choose not to follow a link, the point you're making is lost completely.

Couple this with the font changes, the style changes, the additions of fictional styles in what was ostensibly a non-fiction discussion... I'm sorry, i simply couldn't get through it.

Even the stuff I DID get through confused me. The Harmony of Fun starts off (I think) suggesting that you were underwhelmed by the offerings in the game. You then spent a while talking about how you were wrong, and that the weapons and armor you'd dismissed were actually quite good. Then you blamed Bungie for not making this clearer. Except... in every case, I've either EXPERIENCED the synergies you talk about, or read about them from others who have. They are NOT missed by the community - they're one of the reasons people are enjoying playing the game. So I'm not really sure what your overall point is. :(

(Also, that entire section bugged me: you said, early on (second post? I can't remember) that one of the big problems you saw was that everyone was treating D2 as D1, expanded, and that was a mistake. You spend this whole section talking about how you dismissed all of these weapons (and exotic armors) as weak analogs of their D1 counterparts - which is sort of silly, since you told us that we shouldn't be doing this. I understand that you were trying to point out that you made this mistake, multiple times, and you're showing us your thought process... BUT WE ALREADY KNOW YOU FIGURED IT OUT. You didn't present this as "here's what D2 does right" - you simply made the point (again) that it's easy to overlook things if you come into it with a mindset that D2 is D1 enhanced. Which would, I guess, even be okay, if you stuck to the OTHER stuff you said in the TLDR post. Specifically: what I got out of your Harmony of Fun post is that at this point, 6 weeks after release, you're finding that almost every item you'd dismissed at launch is a boatload of fun to play with. But one of your first points in the TLDR post was that Destiny was 'just good' - the dissonance hurt my head. The new gameplay, when looked at for itself (instead of as an extension of the old game) is deep and complex, with pieces working together to make super-cool new pieces... but the overall is... eh? Follow up. Explain WHY your trees post doesn't jibe with your forest post. What's missing? What would have made it better than 'just good'? )

I'm sorry. I make a serious effort here to critique on substance, rather than style; everyone has a different way of communicating. In this particular case, though, I just couldn't get all the way through the substance - the style got in the way too much.

Again: I'm speaking for me, alone. I have no clue how others view your content, and I know that there are some great ideas in here that could generate some really interesting discussion... but they're buried too deeply for me. I don't have an hour+ for each post (even if it's broken into a bunch of smaller posts).

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Thank you.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 12:16 (2372 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I admit, I debated with my self if I should even put this out at all. If it was still too... unrefined. Part of the process that tends to take these things so long is translating these massive interconnected thoughts from the mania of my mind to anyone else who may read it. I had hoped that in formatting it, it could lessen the edge. Seems not. Bummer.

All in all, I apologize, and I thank you for the frank honesty.

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Thank you.

by cheapLEY @, Monday, October 23, 2017, 12:36 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I’ll get around to reading it later tonight, when I get off work.

I can only offer one thought right now: I just don’t like mega posts. It’s just too dense and too time intensive for me to properly engage with it. My thoughts, rebuttals, answers, questions will all get lost or forgotten by the time I make it to the end, and rather than go through it again, I’ll likely just forego responding. That’s on me, mostly—I’m just lazy at the end of the day.

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Also, no Taylor Swift Gifs

by Schedonnardus, Texas, Monday, October 23, 2017, 13:16 (2372 days ago) @ cheapLEY

- No text -

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I'm INSANE, not a braindead barbarian savage. :P

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 13:30 (2372 days ago) @ Schedonnardus

- No text -

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Well, you are in luck!

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 13:30 (2372 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by INSANEdrive, Monday, October 23, 2017, 13:35

I’ll get around to reading it later tonight, when I get off work.

I can only offer one thought right now: I just don’t like mega posts. It’s just too dense and too time intensive for me to properly engage with it. My thoughts, rebuttals, answers, questions will all get lost or forgotten by the time I make it to the end, and rather than go through it again, I’ll likely just forego responding. That’s on me, mostly—I’m just lazy at the end of the day.

As you will see I mention, this in all likeliness will be my last one. The reason for this being also the same as why I've posted this now (for better or for worse), instead of December at the earliest.

It should also be noted, the only reason why I kept this format, was of the perceived success of them. I've gotten more good responses then bad, so, of course, I kept doing it.

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Well, you are in luck!

by cheapLEY @, Monday, October 23, 2017, 16:18 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Make no mistake, I’m not trying to tell you how to post. I’m merely offering a perspective and explaining why I may not engage. I certainly enjoy reading them, I just might have a hard time forming a response to such a large collection of thoughts.

I’ll be reading it this evening for sure.

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No worries.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 16:35 (2372 days ago) @ cheapLEY

Make no mistake, I’m not trying to tell you how to post. I’m merely offering a perspective and explaining why I may not engage. I certainly enjoy reading them, I just might have a hard time forming a response to such a large collection of thoughts.

I’ll be reading it this evening for sure.

And I welcome the perspective gladly! What I see here with what you mention, to me is a flaw. It is not my want to exclude anyone in discussion.

I didn't know.

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No worries.

by cheapLEY @, Monday, October 23, 2017, 17:37 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Make no mistake, I’m not trying to tell you how to post. I’m merely offering a perspective and explaining why I may not engage. I certainly enjoy reading them, I just might have a hard time forming a response to such a large collection of thoughts.

I’ll be reading it this evening for sure.


And I welcome the perspective gladly! What I see here with what you mention, to me is a flaw. It is not my want to exclude anyone in discussion.

I didn't know.

Hey no worries. As I said, it's more on my end than yours! I need to learn to jot down thoughts as I read, rather than trying to do it all at the end.

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Then so shall I

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 18:44 (2372 days ago) @ Claude Errera

You say, in the last of these posts, that you rarely get any response, and you're not sure if that's because you haven't connected, or because nobody could get through your posts. Speaking only for myself, I'd have to say it's probably the latter. :(

Is that for all? Or just this one?

There are lots of references to things I've never seen before (or maybe things I just don't recognize) - with zero explanation. This means that I have no clue what you're getting at - because not only is the reference only relevant if you've seen the original, but you make ZERO EFFORT to explain it for people who might not understand it. (I get that you're doing this because explaining the reference sort of ruins it - but not having any clue what you're saying also ruins it.)

I understand. Can you give me some examples?

Even without the outside references, though, I was struggling. You write in a stream-of-consciousness style that almost requires that I be inside your head to be able to follow - except I'm not inside your head. You also link back to old (sometimes years-old) discussions with no summaries; if I choose not to follow a link, the point you're making is lost completely.

I can be a bit fast with the data sometimes, though I still can't crack a 128,000-bit modulating encryption key with out help. :P

The links aren't, and certainly should not be, something you are required to click to understand what I have to say. They are only intended to add. There are a few cases where I link or embed things for fun, but perhaps I should refrain from that practice, and keep it purely message based to decrease possible confusion.

All said, your observation has been noted. :)

Couple this with the font changes, the style changes, the additions of fictional styles in what was ostensibly a non-fiction discussion... I'm sorry, I simply couldn't get through it.

This is on me for presuming a given through context, instead of using a more direct approach. This is me interjecting into my own post, like commentary tracks of a DVD. This is because I knew what I was doing when I was doing it, and I had hoped to clarify and inform. I knew some the things were incomplete, and I had expected some confusion. I wasn't expecting the end result to be found unreadable though.

Even the stuff I DID get through confused me. The Harmony of Fun starts off (I think) suggesting that you were underwhelmed by the offerings in the game. You then spent a while talking about how you were wrong, and that the weapons and armor you'd dismissed were actually quite good. Then you blamed Bungie for not making this clearer. Except... in every case, I've either EXPERIENCED the synergies you talk about, or read about them from others who have. They are NOT missed by the community - they're one of the reasons people are enjoying playing the game. So I'm not really sure what your overall point is. :(

(Also, that entire section bugged me: you said, early on (second post? I can't remember) that one of the big problems you saw was that everyone was treating D2 as D1, expanded, and that was a mistake. You spend this whole section talking about how you dismissed all of these weapons (and exotic armors) as weak analogs of their D1 counterparts - which is sort of silly, since you told us that we shouldn't be doing this. I understand that you were trying to point out that you made this mistake, multiple times, and you're showing us your thought process... BUT WE ALREADY KNOW YOU FIGURED IT OUT. You didn't present this as "here's what D2 does right" - you simply made the point (again) that it's easy to overlook things if you come into it with a mindset that D2 is D1 enhanced. Which would, I guess, even be okay, if you stuck to the OTHER stuff you said in the TLDR post. Specifically: what I got out of your Harmony of Fun post is that at this point, 6 weeks after release, you're finding that almost every item you'd dismissed at launch is a boatload of fun to play with.

Things were missed. This is mainly focused on "The Harmony of Fun", so here are some points. The point is endgame related. The .gif are from a "classic" anime called "Akira". Even if you don't know a thing about it, which is fine, these are added to reinforce the tone. It's fairly obvious, I think, to what is seen. That it all involves great deals of RAW power.

First I'm noting how easy it was to come to an initial conclusion. The reason to this, I conclude from experience, is how we are coming from Destiny & the subtle nature of some of the changes. Where the fun is. That mindset we built from 3 years of a game.

Compared to Destiny 1, the Destiny 2 perks are not very exciting on the surface, and I find are far more simplistic. I note that despite this, once I got over it, and just tried it - I had fun.

I then tackle the whole power aspect. I lament deeply that even though it was alot of fun to indulge into the power fantasy aspect that Destiny 1 had, that it was limiting the fun of the game. I note how far that fun could go, and the only way to keep having fun under such a method.

The we get to the "punchline", which I note note in the "DVD Commentary style" that it should have more stuff listed, but with the little I do have, I note some of the combinations that really bring out a new style of play.

After this said, I bring home the key point with a quote.

" Q: You just don't get it, do you, Jean-Luc? The trial never ends. We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons. And for one brief moment, you did.

Q: ...For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. *That* is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence.
"

That is, or should be the endgame! Figuring out new ways to play and have fun. Not grinding for kit through RNG. Not Shaders or Emblems. Gameplay. Gameplay should be the endgame. That is my plea.

That's the point. I'll even add something extra that I don't mention. Be this obvious or not, I found this point to be underrepresented. People are finding these "synergies" but it seems to be that these things are an afterthought, when such should be, I feel, the main thing. It should be as big of a deal as RNG for Destiny 1. Ergo; The Harmony of Fun.

But one of your first points in the TLDR post was that Destiny was 'just good' - the dissonance hurt my head. The new gameplay, when looked at for itself (instead of as an extension of the old game) is deep and complex, with pieces working together to make super-cool new pieces... but the overall is... eh? Follow up. Explain WHY your trees post doesn't jibe with your forest post. What's missing? What would have made it better than 'just good'? )

There is more weight being put on this then I intended, though it is valid. I'm not arguing for good or bad. That is not my focus, as such things are very subjective. Though out my text, I note my frustrations, and I note that I have had fun.

Perhaps that is why it is only good. I have had a balanced amount of frustrations and fun. Still, for me an improvement over Destiny 1 all the same.

I'm sorry. I make a serious effort here to critique on substance, rather than style; everyone has a different way of communicating. In this particular case, though, I just couldn't get all the way through the substance - the style got in the way too much.

Again: I'm speaking for me, alone. I have no clue how others view your content, and I know that there are some great ideas in here that could generate some really interesting discussion... but they're buried too deeply for me. I don't have an hour+ for each post (even if it's broken into a bunch of smaller posts).

As I say in my thanks, I debated with my self if I should even put this out at all. I did expect some amount of ... being unintelligible in parts for some, and I had hoped the formatting would soften the edge. It seems for you it did the complete opposite, and overwhelmed and confused. I certainly did not expect anyone to find my text to be wholly unintelligible, or else I wouldn't have posted this at all. It's not my want to fluster or frustrate anyone.

I guess I'll end this with another thank you for your input, and again, I apologize for posting something so inadequate that it is to be unreadable for you.

Then so shall I

by Claude Errera @, Monday, October 23, 2017, 20:20 (2372 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

You say, in the last of these posts, that you rarely get any response, and you're not sure if that's because you haven't connected, or because nobody could get through your posts. Speaking only for myself, I'd have to say it's probably the latter. :(


Is that for all? Or just this one?

I was speaking about this one.

There are lots of references to things I've never seen before (or maybe things I just don't recognize) - with zero explanation. This means that I have no clue what you're getting at - because not only is the reference only relevant if you've seen the original, but you make ZERO EFFORT to explain it for people who might not understand it. (I get that you're doing this because explaining the reference sort of ruins it - but not having any clue what you're saying also ruins it.)


I understand. Can you give me some examples?

The quote you used below is a great example. I have no clue where it's from, and on its surface, it doesn't really apply to the argument you were making (even with your explanation here, I have trouble seeing the connection). And even here, where you're actually trying to address my complaint, you continue to use unattributed references in ways that are not immediately obvious.

Look - I'm really not trying to say that you can't communicate the way you want to communicate. I'm trying to say that if you choose to communicate this way, the only people who will interact with you are people who either get your references, or don't care that they don't. I don't fall into either group. :(

Even without the outside references, though, I was struggling. You write in a stream-of-consciousness style that almost requires that I be inside your head to be able to follow - except I'm not inside your head. You also link back to old (sometimes years-old) discussions with no summaries; if I choose not to follow a link, the point you're making is lost completely.


I can be a bit fast with the data sometimes, though I still can't crack a 128,000-bit modulating encryption key with out help. :P

Yeah, that one I got. But it still feels like a majority of your points are being made without actually TALKING to us - it's like I'm having a meme conversation, except with pre-memes.

I don't like those.

Couple this with the font changes, the style changes, the additions of fictional styles in what was ostensibly a non-fiction discussion... I'm sorry, I simply couldn't get through it.


This is on me for presuming a given through context, instead of using a more direct approach. This is me interjecting into my own post, like commentary tracks of a DVD. This is because I knew what I was doing when I was doing it, and I had hoped to clarify and inform. I knew some the things were incomplete, and I had expected some confusion. I wasn't expecting the end result to be found unreadable though.

A prime example (for me) was the conversation with yourself in the Glory Organization post. I understand you were using different colors to denote different... 'voices'. But the end result (for me) was a completely unreadable (well, unscannable) mishmash. I CANNOT process text that comes in that many colors. (Okay, that's not true. I don't want to. It's too much work, and there's really no payoff.)

So I skipped it. But I'd have read it if you'd, say, put each voice on its own line. With all in a standard color (black works nicely :) ).

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Then so shall I

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Monday, October 23, 2017, 21:38 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

There are lots of references to things I've never seen before (or maybe things I just don't recognize) - with zero explanation. This means that I have no clue what you're getting at - because not only is the reference only relevant if you've seen the original, but you make ZERO EFFORT to explain it for people who might not understand it. (I get that you're doing this because explaining the reference sort of ruins it - but not having any clue what you're saying also ruins it.)


I understand. Can you give me some examples?


The quote you used below is a great example. I have no clue where it's from, and on its surface, it doesn't really apply to the argument you were making (even with your explanation here, I have trouble seeing the connection). And even here, where you're actually trying to address my complaint, you continue to use unattributed references in ways that are not immediately obvious.

Look - I'm really not trying to say that you can't communicate the way you want to communicate. I'm trying to say that if you choose to communicate this way, the only people who will interact with you are people who either get your references, or don't care that they don't. I don't fall into either group. :(

Know your audience indeed. Alright. It seems to me the issue is ultimately inference. You require a far more direct and less imaginative approach then I have here in this post. It's almost like you are a programmer or something. ;D

Well, simply for the sake of saying so, whether or not you know where the reference is from (which is Star Trek: TNG, by the way) does not subtract from the inteded meaning. If you can't see how "*That* is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknown possibilities of existence." can infer into "Figuring out new ways to play and have fun", then there is honestly no more I can think of right now that I can do. The issue is a dialect of thinking.

[image]

However. I can do dryer text. I may have distanced my self abit too much from such a style of writing since I myself have never been a fan of such text (unless they are to sleep on >_>). I may have indulged one side of my brain more then the other. Hmm.

Thank you.

Then so shall I

by Claude Errera @, Monday, October 23, 2017, 21:53 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Well, simply for the sake of saying so, whether or not you know where the reference is from (which is Star Trek: TNG, by the way)

So that's a weakness in me, probably not a lot of the rest of this forum.

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

That is unusual, in my circles (and probably in this forum).

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Then so shall I

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 00:41 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

No excuses. If you spend an hour a day watching an episode, you'll finish in six months! I think it took me 3 years to watch every TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY episode. And that was doing it pretty much every day. Now I know why Star Trek nerds are maladjusted: the sheer amount of time they need to spend watching is colossal.

But… you are missing out.

Then so shall I

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:07 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.


No excuses. If you spend an hour a day watching an episode, you'll finish in six months! I think it took me 3 years to watch every TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY episode. And that was doing it pretty much every day. Now I know why Star Trek nerds are maladjusted: the sheer amount of time they need to spend watching is colossal.

But… you are missing out.

Yeah, probably. There's so much to watch these days, though, that I have to make choices. And so far, with this exception, I haven't felt deprived. :)

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Then so shall I

by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:20 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

But… you are missing out.


Yeah, probably. There's so much to watch these days, though, that I have to make choices. And so far, with this exception, I haven't felt deprived. :)

Fair, but Cody is kind of right here. Also, coming in on season 3 would have been the correct way to watch anyway. That's how I introduced Rellekh to TNG and I'm pretty sure she'll never know that Data is fully equipped.

Then so shall I

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:24 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

But… you are missing out.


Yeah, probably. There's so much to watch these days, though, that I have to make choices. And so far, with this exception, I haven't felt deprived. :)


Fair, but Cody is kind of right here. Also, coming in on season 3 would have been the correct way to watch anyway. That's how I introduced Rellekh to TNG and I'm pretty sure she'll never know that Data is fully equipped.

lol

It's on the list. I have zero interest in some of the later series, but TNG is (and has been, for decades) on the list.

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Then so shall I

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:32 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

But… you are missing out.


Yeah, probably. There's so much to watch these days, though, that I have to make choices. And so far, with this exception, I haven't felt deprived. :)


Fair, but Cody is kind of right here. Also, coming in on season 3 would have been the correct way to watch anyway. That's how I introduced Rellekh to TNG and I'm pretty sure she'll never know that Data is fully equipped.


lol

It's on the list. I have zero interest in some of the later series, but TNG is (and has been, for decades) on the list.

I will tell you skip the episode Sub Rosa. Don’t ask why. Telling you would offend Malagate and get me banned again. :-p

Then so shall I

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 13:23 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

But… you are missing out.


Yeah, probably. There's so much to watch these days, though, that I have to make choices. And so far, with this exception, I haven't felt deprived. :)


Fair, but Cody is kind of right here. Also, coming in on season 3 would have been the correct way to watch anyway. That's how I introduced Rellekh to TNG and I'm pretty sure she'll never know that Data is fully equipped.


lol

It's on the list. I have zero interest in some of the later series, but TNG is (and has been, for decades) on the list.


I will tell you skip the episode Sub Rosa. Don’t ask why. Telling you would offend Malagate and get me banned again. :-p

It's a meaningless piece of advice. By the time I get to it, I'll have completely forgotten this. (It'll be years before I get to it. I know myself well enough to know this.)

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Then so shall I

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 13:39 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

But… you are missing out.


Yeah, probably. There's so much to watch these days, though, that I have to make choices. And so far, with this exception, I haven't felt deprived. :)


Fair, but Cody is kind of right here. Also, coming in on season 3 would have been the correct way to watch anyway. That's how I introduced Rellekh to TNG and I'm pretty sure she'll never know that Data is fully equipped.


lol

It's on the list. I have zero interest in some of the later series, but TNG is (and has been, for decades) on the list.


I will tell you skip the episode Sub Rosa. Don’t ask why. Telling you would offend Malagate and get me banned again. :-p


It's a meaningless piece of advice. By the time I get to it, I'll have completely forgotten this. (It'll be years before I get to it. I know myself well enough to know this.)

By the time you get to it, will you be able to remember anything at all? Zomg Claude is old joke hahahah. :-p

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Then so shall I

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 13:40 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

But… you are missing out.


Yeah, probably. There's so much to watch these days, though, that I have to make choices. And so far, with this exception, I haven't felt deprived. :)


Fair, but Cody is kind of right here. Also, coming in on season 3 would have been the correct way to watch anyway. That's how I introduced Rellekh to TNG and I'm pretty sure she'll never know that Data is fully equipped.


lol

It's on the list. I have zero interest in some of the later series, but TNG is (and has been, for decades) on the list.


I will tell you skip the episode Sub Rosa. Don’t ask why. Telling you would offend Malagate and get me banned again. :-p


It's a meaningless piece of advice. By the time I get to it, I'll have completely forgotten this. (It'll be years before I get to it. I know myself well enough to know this.)


By the time you get to it, will you be able to remember anything at all? Zomg Claude is old joke hahahah. :-p

Too soon? Oh wait, I think sooner is better!

I've forgotten the beginning of this thread.

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 14:02 (2371 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

- No text -

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It's like we were never on your lawn in the first place. :P

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 17:15 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

- No text -

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Then so shall I

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:43 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

DS9 is highly worth it once you get past the initial season or two. But VOY and ENT are not necessary in the grand scheme.

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Then so shall I

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:51 (2371 days ago) @ Harmanimus

DS9 is highly worth it once you get past the initial season or two. But VOY and ENT are not necessary in the grand scheme.

I say BSG over DS9 if he has to pick and choose.

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Then so shall I

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:54 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I don't think BSG is nearly as engaging or interesting from a character perspective.

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Then so shall I

by Speedracer513 @, Dallas, Texas, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:57 (2371 days ago) @ Harmanimus

I don't think BSG is nearly as engaging or interesting from a character perspective.

Your opinions are wrong and you should feel bad. ;-)

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Then so shall I

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:59 (2371 days ago) @ Speedracer513

I also think Firefly wasn't that special and that it is for the best it ended at 14 episodes and the movie was the correct way to end the story. Wanna fight me?

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Yes. Yes I do.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:00 (2371 days ago) @ Harmanimus

- No text -

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Then so shall I

by Speedracer513 @, Dallas, Texas, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:07 (2371 days ago) @ Harmanimus

I also think Firefly wasn't that special and that it is for the best it ended at 14 episodes and the movie was the correct way to end the story. Wanna fight me?

HELL YEAH I DO!!!

Maybe I'll just ban you from the forums instead though...

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When banning for Firefly related incidents...

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:09 (2371 days ago) @ Speedracer513

...please be sure to include this quote:

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet i will end you.

Also acceptable are variations of the banter about going to the "special hell."

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When banning for Firefly related incidents...

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:11 (2371 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Also acceptable are variations of the banter about going to the "special hell."

I say this all the time to my friends and they just look at me like I'm a special sort of sadistic and I just sigh and walk away.

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You're all really damaging my calm now.

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:52 (2371 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

As everyone assumes it's that I didn't like the show, but it has more to do with the fact that I'm glad it ended before anyone had a chance to ruin a rather nice thing.

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You're all really damaging my calm now.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:59 (2371 days ago) @ Harmanimus

As everyone assumes it's that I didn't like the show, but it has more to do with the fact that I'm glad it ended before anyone had a chance to ruin a rather nice thing.

Oh, I can understand that. I just disagree with you :D
I think it was ruined by the fact that it ended that soon. It had a lot of potential. Just like Dollhouse had a bunch of potential before it was canceled, it was just canceled with a bit more grace than Firefly was.

You're all really damaging my calm now.

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 13:26 (2371 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

As everyone assumes it's that I didn't like the show, but it has more to do with the fact that I'm glad it ended before anyone had a chance to ruin a rather nice thing.


Oh, I can understand that. I just disagree with you :D
I think it was ruined by the fact that it ended that soon. It had a lot of potential. Just like Dollhouse had a bunch of potential before it was canceled, it was just canceled with a bit more grace than Firefly was.

Eh. Dollhouse was awesome in the first year. It was tolerable in Y2, getting worse as time went on. I can completely see why they cancelled it.

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You're all really damaging my calm now.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 13:32 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

As everyone assumes it's that I didn't like the show, but it has more to do with the fact that I'm glad it ended before anyone had a chance to ruin a rather nice thing.


Oh, I can understand that. I just disagree with you :D
I think it was ruined by the fact that it ended that soon. It had a lot of potential. Just like Dollhouse had a bunch of potential before it was canceled, it was just canceled with a bit more grace than Firefly was.


Eh. Dollhouse was awesome in the first year. It was tolerable in Y2, getting worse as time went on. I can completely see why they cancelled it.

I would argue it got worse because it was being forced to end and thus it had to end abruptly and wrap stuff up. I could be wrong, but I feel like the story could have done so much more and might have if it hadn't been canceled.

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Then so shall I

by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:00 (2371 days ago) @ Speedracer513

I don't think BSG is nearly as engaging or interesting from a character perspective.


Your opinions are wrong and you should feel bad. ;-)

While I mostly agree with you. Colm Meaney is fantastic.

Then so shall I

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 14:02 (2371 days ago) @ Harmanimus

DS9 is highly worth it once you get past the initial season or two. But VOY and ENT are not necessary in the grand scheme.

I watched DS9 when it was on TV. I got bored after a while. (I think I still watched most of it, though.)

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Then so shall I

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:30 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens
edited by Cody Miller, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:34

I was out of the country (with no access to us TV) when Star Trek:TNG came out. By the time I was back, it was a couple of seasons in, at a time when Netflix didn't exist. I skipped it altogeher. In the past 30 years, I've watched a few - but never enough to actually catch up. So I know the characters - but none of the references.

But… you are missing out.


Yeah, probably. There's so much to watch these days, though, that I have to make choices. And so far, with this exception, I haven't felt deprived. :)


Fair, but Cody is kind of right here. Also, coming in on season 3 would have been the correct way to watch anyway. That's how I introduced Rellekh to TNG and I'm pretty sure she'll never know that Data is fully equipped.

Fully equipped, and programmed in multiple techniques.

But you miss the whole point of the show if you don’t watch the first episode and set up Q’s trial of humanity… it comes full circle in the series conclusion after all.

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So Say We All

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 13:57 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

All you really need to see is:

-The Miniseries
-33
-The Hand of God
-Exodus Part 1 & 2
-He That Believeth in Me
-Daybreak Parts 1, 2, & 3.

...and you'll be all set.

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I tried. Really, I tried.

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:57 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

Part of the problem is just the sheer length of it all at once. I start to feel bad when I drop a 1,000+ word Bite-sized Backstory people once a week. If Microsoft Word measured it anywhere near correctly, this collective document was 10,000+ words, all sitting there almost demanding that it all be read in one sitting.

My recommendation would have been to split it up and release it one section a day. That way you’d get it out all pretty quickly but people would be more inclined to read it.

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Post Size

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:05 (2371 days ago) @ Ragashingo

Part of the problem is just the sheer length of it all at once. I start to feel bad when I drop a 1,000+ word Bite-sized Backstory people once a week. If Microsoft Word measured it anywhere near correctly, this collective document was 10,000+ words, all sitting there almost demanding that it all be read in one sitting.

My recommendation would have been to split it up and release it one section a day. That way you’d get it out all pretty quickly but people would be more inclined to read it.

As I just said to Robot Chickens only moments ago. ...

Anywho, your thoughts on the sheer size has been recently gathered. Of course it's when I already intend to stop using this style, due to time to make, when it is suggested I should stop or alter this certain style, due to time to read. (LOL)

THE SYSTEM WORKS! XD

SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING!! GAA! HAHAHA! :D

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Cool! :)

by Ragashingo ⌂, Official DBO Cryptarch, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:12 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

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by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:28 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Use the fewest number of words possible that still get across what you want to say.

In high school you used to have length requirements in papers which was kind of dumb. In college those went away and it certainly improved my writing. I remember turning in a 5 page paper and getting an A, while others went on and on for 40+ pages. This is literal.

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by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:41 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Use the fewest number of words possible that still get across what you want to say.

This depends highly on the medium and genre of the writing. At work, and in academics, absolutely. In art, mostly but occasionally maybe? It's always a good process to edit and reduce, but sometimes it's good to leave things rough around the edges or elaborated upon. Brian Eno (music producer) is famous for churning out rough cuts as finished products and some of them are brilliant to my ear. Some producers would have locked in on "the hooks" or removed the wandering parts. Over time, some of the wanderings have become my favorites excerpts. All that to say, I don't think it's an absolute rule, but it is a good rule.

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by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:46 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

Use the fewest number of words possible that still get across what you want to say.


This depends highly on the medium and genre of the writing. At work, and in academics, absolutely. In art, mostly but occasionally maybe? It's always a good process to edit and reduce, but sometimes it's good to leave things rough around the edges or elaborated upon. Brian Eno (music producer) is famous for churning out rough cuts as finished products and some of them are brilliant to my ear. Some producers would have locked in on "the hooks" or removed the wandering parts. Over time, some of the wanderings have become my favorites excerpts. All that to say, I don't think it's an absolute rule, but it is a good rule.

Note the last part of the sentence.

Sometimes more words or rougher prose does get your intent across better. It is relative.

I could cut any movie down to 20 minutes and hit all the plot points. But who would watch that?!

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by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:55 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

I could cut any movie down to 20 minutes and hit all the plot points. But who would watch that?!

There are fair amount of shitty movies that I would love if they had done just that :P

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The 18 min cut of AVP Requiem is pretty awesome.

by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:00 (2371 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

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The 18 min cut of AVP Requiem is pretty awesome.

by Cody Miller @, Music of the Spheres - Never Forgot, Thursday, October 26, 2017, 11:04 (2369 days ago) @ Harmanimus

The thing with fan edits is that they are always either gimicky, or not 'invisible'. Even the famous Phantom cuts of the first two Star Wars prequels were… rough around the edges. The ideas behind his cuts were nice, but in execution it was often clunky even when technically flawless. It's largely due to the fact that you don't have the dailies and can only work with what's already in the movie or in deleted scenes.

This isn;t going to stop me from trying with Blade Runner 2049 though :-p

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by cheapLEY @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 18:27 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Use the fewest number of words possible that still get across what you want to say.


This depends highly on the medium and genre of the writing. At work, and in academics, absolutely. In art, mostly but occasionally maybe? It's always a good process to edit and reduce, but sometimes it's good to leave things rough around the edges or elaborated upon. Brian Eno (music producer) is famous for churning out rough cuts as finished products and some of them are brilliant to my ear. Some producers would have locked in on "the hooks" or removed the wandering parts. Over time, some of the wanderings have become my favorites excerpts. All that to say, I don't think it's an absolute rule, but it is a good rule.


Note the last part of the sentence.

Sometimes more words or rougher prose does get your intent across better. It is relative.

I could cut any movie down to 20 minutes and hit all the plot points. But who would watch that?!

I mean, the supercut that turns the Star Wars Prequels into one hour and half movie is way better than all of those movies independently . . .

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by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:49 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

I think this is important to focus on it being the shortest way to say what your are trying to say and that sometimes to get the point across it needs to be rough or expounded upon to great depth. But when your filler or transitional information is bloated you have a problem. Too much adjustment often ruins artworks. However, an essay with a size requirement is often harmed by bloated joints even if the intent is to require sufficient meat.

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by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:46 (2371 days ago) @ Cody Miller
edited by INSANEdrive, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:49

Use the fewest number of words possible that still get across what you want to say.

In high school you used to have length requirements in papers which was kind of dumb. In college those went away and it certainly improved my writing. I remember turning in a 5 page paper and getting an A, while others went on and on for 40+ pages. This is literal.

Yea I did those too. When it comes to interwoven topics, every time I tried to make one word, two more take its place. That's not to say I can't eventually get succinct, it just takes time. Time this piece no longer had.

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by Harmanimus @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:59 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Aggressive editing of ideas while you write is a good habit to start with. Anytime I write anything I keep a second text file for clear cutting sections into which may have outgrown their original intent or don't read well. And then i find someone to proofread what I do keep. That way if any areas are missing I still have a reservoir of ideas.

Also, while this is an aside that Claude had touched on, the format changes definitely make for big hurtles. I used to do work on clarity in visual communication (i.e., fixing power point presentations) and cutting down on any visual variables without express and known purpose is highly important in clarity. There are certain cultural assumptions that your text can bring visually and that may lead to it being overlooked or hard to read due to unintended associations.

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TL;DR

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 06:38 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

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I immediately regret my decision.

by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 07:08 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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I do not.

by breitzen @, Kansas, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 07:49 (2371 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

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TL;DR

by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 08:01 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 08:29 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

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by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 09:42 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid
edited by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 09:47

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by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:06 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

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by MacAddictXIV @, Seattle WA, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:11 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:19 (2371 days ago) @ MacAddictXIV

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by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:21 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:27 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

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by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:28 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:32 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

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by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:38 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:44 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:41 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:46 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

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A touch late to the party here. Enough.

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:45 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

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A touch late to the party here. Enough.

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:47 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

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A touch late to the party here. Enough.

by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:51 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

Probably for the best that we shut this Tswift business down.

On topic, I kind of like your writing, but I have to be in the mood/have time. I think, at most, I can read one of your subsections a day (I blame MTV and the quick-cuts for my short attention span). If you were to do this again (I know you don't plan to), I would put one section out a week, let it generate discussion, and then post the next. I think there is just too much to respond to for this format.

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About your Post

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:03 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

I kind of like your writing, but I have to be in the mood/have time. I think, at most, I can read one of your subsections a day (I blame MTV and the quick-cuts for my short attention span). If you were to do this again (I know you don't plan to), I would put one section out a week, let it generate discussion, and then post the next. I think there is just too much to respond to for this format.

Kind of? So is that eating vegetables to get to dessert kind of? Or Having a dog, but need to pick up shit once in a while kind of? I hope that isn't too abstract.

Anywho, your thoughts on the sheer size has been recently gathered. Of course it's when I already intend to stop using this style, due to time to make, when it is suggested I should stop or alter this certain style, due to time to read. (LOL)

THE SYSTEM WORKS! XD

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by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 11:12 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I kind of like your writing, but I have to be in the mood/have time. I think, at most, I can read one of your subsections a day (I blame MTV and the quick-cuts for my short attention span). If you were to do this again (I know you don't plan to), I would put one section out a week, let it generate discussion, and then post the next. I think there is just too much to respond to for this format.


Kind of? So is that eating vegetables to get to dessert kind of? Or Having a dog, but need to pick up shit once in a while kind of? I hope that isn't too abstract.

:-) Not quite. I mean that it may not be my favorite, but I enjoy it on occasion. Claude touched on this, but your writing takes a bit of work to get into (there are a lot of threads to pull together and the changes in voice/tone exacerbate the work needed). I'm not always in the mood for that kind of mental exertion, but when I am, it hits the spot.

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by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:41 (2371 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

I kind of like your writing, but I have to be in the mood/have time. I think, at most, I can read one of your subsections a day (I blame MTV and the quick-cuts for my short attention span). If you were to do this again (I know you don't plan to), I would put one section out a week, let it generate discussion, and then post the next. I think there is just too much to respond to for this format.


Kind of? So is that eating vegetables to get to dessert kind of? Or Having a dog, but need to pick up shit once in a while kind of? I hope that isn't too abstract.


:-) Not quite. I mean that it may not be my favorite, but I enjoy it on occasion. Claude touched on this, but your writing takes a bit of work to get into (there are a lot of threads to pull together and the changes in voice/tone exacerbate the work needed). I'm not always in the mood for that kind of mental exertion, but when I am, it hits the spot.

Ah I see, you don't always like doing puzzles, but when you do... you try to read one of my longreads? Interesting!

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by Robot Chickens, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 13:29 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I kind of like your writing, but I have to be in the mood/have time. I think, at most, I can read one of your subsections a day (I blame MTV and the quick-cuts for my short attention span). If you were to do this again (I know you don't plan to), I would put one section out a week, let it generate discussion, and then post the next. I think there is just too much to respond to for this format.


Kind of? So is that eating vegetables to get to dessert kind of? Or Having a dog, but need to pick up shit once in a while kind of? I hope that isn't too abstract.


:-) Not quite. I mean that it may not be my favorite, but I enjoy it on occasion. Claude touched on this, but your writing takes a bit of work to get into (there are a lot of threads to pull together and the changes in voice/tone exacerbate the work needed). I'm not always in the mood for that kind of mental exertion, but when I am, it hits the spot.


Ah I see, you don't always like doing puzzles, but when you do... you try to read one of my longreads? Interesting!

Exactly.

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Can we Delete or Move this part?

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 10:49 (2371 days ago) @ unoudid

I'm all for fun and games, I mean obviously. But this adds nothing and is wholesale giant distraction.

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Can we Delete or Move this part?

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 12:12 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

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Can we Delete or Move this part?

by Claude Errera @, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 14:14 (2371 days ago) @ INSANEdrive

I'm all for fun and games, I mean obviously. But this adds nothing and is wholesale giant distraction.

The best part about threaded forums is that you can simply ignore the branches that don't speak to you, and be pretty sure you're not missing stuff you want to see.

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THE WU-FATHER HAS SPOKEN!

by INSANEdrive, ಥ_ಥ | f(ಠ‿↼)z | ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, Tuesday, October 24, 2017, 17:04 (2371 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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Can we Delete or Move this part?

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 16:15 (2370 days ago) @ Claude Errera

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Can we Delete or Move this part?

by CruelLEGACEY @, Toronto, Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 16:26 (2370 days ago) @ unoudid

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Ugh, I literally cannot stand how adorable she is :)

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Can we Delete or Move this part?

by cheapLEY @, Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 17:10 (2370 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

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Ugh, I literally cannot stand how adorable she is :)

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Can we Delete or Move this part?

by Robot Chickens, Wednesday, October 25, 2017, 18:12 (2370 days ago) @ CruelLEGACEY

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Ugh, I literally cannot stand how adorable she is :)

It's like she's saying it directly to you!

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Can we Delete or Move this part?

by unoudid @, Somewhere over the rainbow, Thursday, October 26, 2017, 06:31 (2369 days ago) @ Robot Chickens

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Ugh, I literally cannot stand how adorable she is :)


It's like she's saying it directly to you!

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