Why Bungie Can't Get it Right (from a design standpoint) (Destiny)

by Kahzgul, Sunday, October 30, 2016, 03:41 (2790 days ago) @ Ragashingo

This never happens in practice. I virtually never am in say, a pulse rifle engagement only to lose because the opponent rushes forward and shotguns me. I die to shotguns when they can close on me and not be shot. Around corners. Jumping from below obstacles. That kind of thing.

The game you describe is not the game I have been playing, at least in my experience. Plus fusions are the counter to shotguns. Still love them and always have.

Agreed.

The only way someone starting from Sniper range (which I'd count as from B on Shores of Time to the sniping point beside C or from one side of the waterfall sniper lane on Pantheon to the other) kills me with a shotgun in the open is if I was in the other room grabbing some more Dr. Pepper.

As long as I have a clear line of sight, I can kill them with my sidearm nearly every time even if they start pretty close (say... from C on Black Shield to that stack of pipes at the C door or even a little closer).

In my post you'll note that I call "shotgun range" 20 meters or closer. What you're describing is well outside of that and I would expect you to win against a shotgunner all day, every day in those situations.

Where shotguns get me is when someone uses a 90 degree turn or a doorway to lure me in. Or when they use cover then pop over or around an obstruction. Basically, when the enemy plays to their advantage and I don't properly counter. (Sometimes properly countering means backing off and leaving them camping)

Yes, agreed.

I still think Destiny's real weapon problem is we have three or so main engagement distances (Short, Medium, Long) but too many weapons vying for relevance within those zones. Like, what is a Hand Cannon but a short range Scout Rifle that feels more and more iffy as you move past its intended range? If my heavy Scout Rifle and Hand Cannon both kill in three shots... why ever use the Hand Cannon?

The whole thrust of my post is that short is the vast majority of encounters, and shotguns excel in those ranges. 0-20m is most people you see in this game. Medium is 21-25 m, and long is 26m+ So you have a distance that you can close in less than half a second that is your optimal hand cannon distance. The honest difference between scouts and HCs is that scouts tend to zoom in more than some people are comfortable with. That's about it. I agree, why ever use most of the primary weapons in this game? This is Bungie's failing here. There aren't enough ranges at which primaries are the correct choice, and the maps don't provide much opportunity to stretch the ranges with weapon changes. Rather, if weapon ranges were expanded across the board, long range weapons would become completely useless due to how tight the maps are.

Maybe Hand Cannons should be merged into the Sidearm group, have their range pulled in a third and their power upped a third so they're two shot kill heavy Sidearms? Make them feel loud and powerful and distinctive (I always like the Bioshock Infinite Hand Cannon, for instance) but meant to be used in close instead of being in a primary slot where most other primaries just outrange them...

This would be okay, but what it's really doing is eliminating a primary option rather than fixing the fatal flaw of the game - players can close distance too quickly and the maps don't generally force players to engage at long ranges.

Its such a tricky problem though...

Hence why I said Bungie can't get it right. They literally cannot. The movement is so good that it kind of screws the options when it comes to gunplay.