Hah... I should explain (Rogue 1 Spoilers) (Gaming)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, March 19, 2018, 18:06 (2237 days ago) @ Kermit

I enjoyed Rogue One for what it was--mostly lost footage in relation to Star Wars (when I say Star Wars I mean A New Hope). There is a question that should be asked about all Star Wars movies now, which is why make them? The one good reason to make a Star Wars movie is to tell a good story, and Rogue One barely passes the test mainly by doing no harm. There are many not very good reasons to make these movies: to make a buck, to provide fan service, or to "update" them with nods to trendy cultural issues. You can accomplish the latter while avoiding the fan service issue with a kind of anti-fan service: just subvert or ignore the timeless mythological elements that made the original movies so good. Did I mention that I saw The Last Jedi again?

lol... I was just about to post about The Last Jedi, because I just watched it again too :)

I know we won't see eye to eye on this one, and that's cool. I do still think that it actually holds on to those mythological elements that made the originals great, just while addressing the messy transitional processes that the previous versions perhaps glossed over. I'm curious, what "trendy cultural issues" do you feel TLJ was paying service to? And you may have covered this in other posts (so don't worry about responding if its all covered territory) but what mythological elements do you feel it ignored?

In my eyes, all the classic Star Wars elements are there, but there are just more growing pains as characters step into their roles. We're seeing the young characters make some fairly substantial blunders on their way to becoming heroes, and the older characters are having trouble hanging onto the victories of their youth. But in the end, all the traditional mythological elements are there as far as I can see. Just my take :)

I think there are basic problems with how the story is told--that's a primary point. In my opinion, young Luke's transition to the old Luke we see in the film isn't given a believable exposition. The significance of this faux paux cannot be overstated.

To answer your specific question, I'll give one example: there seems to be an intent to highlight "toxic masculinity" (a trendy construct that assumes toxicity is gendered) and to shame male attempts at boldness or sacrifice, which are traditional mythological tropes. Luke's sacrifice seems begrudging and obligatory in this context and anti-climatic to boot. Where the movie gets the mythological elements right is with Kylo Ren's internal conflict, which is part of why those are the most compelling moments of the film for me. They are so brief and so quickly forgotten, however, that those scenes in retrospect seem weightless. I definitely got the impression that Rian Johnson is playing with the elements, but it's like someone who hasn't seen a face is given a Mr. Potato Head and proceeds to attach features willy nilly.

That’s interesting... I fully agree that Kylo embodies the most classic elements of hero mythology, but nothing about it felt weightless to me. Kylo’s personal arch and his relationship with Rey is the driving force behind this new trilogy, IMO. Not only that, but out of this whole new generation of characters, Kylo by the end of TLJ is the most secure and confident in his path and identity. He’s freed himself fully from the oppression of his own insecurities, and that aspect of him isn’t vilified, it’s actually the thing about him that keeps him sympathetic and relatable even as he’s trying to murder the heros, which is a fascinating tightrope for a movie like Star Wars to play with, and I think they’re doing so successfully. I also love the way Rey learns from Kylo’s example, even as they drift further in opposite directions. She’s able to look at Kylo and recognize what is great and strong within him without buying into everything else that he’s selling, which I think is a valuable form of both intelligence and morality to show.

As far as the “toxic masculinity” aspect goes, which part of the movie hit that note for you? We certainly see Poe’s stereotypical swashbuckling (and stereotypically male) heroic antics get dressed down. Is that what you’re referring to? If so, I saw that as part of the process of Poe learning the lessons necessary of true leadership. This could just be me allowing my knowledge of the outside world (specifically Carrie’s death) influence my interpretation, but there seems to be a very intentional “passing of the torch” from Leia to Poe over the course of the film. She’s hard on him early because his actions show a lack of consideration for the big picture. But by the end, when every natural instinct he has is screaming to run out and join Luke, he’s able to grasp the bigger picture and the true reason for Luke’s actions. And that’s the exact moment when Leia says “don’t look at me... follow him!”. In my mind it had nothing to do with admonishing masculinity, and everything to do with the way one needs to change when their responsibilities grow to include taking care of others.

Of course, if you weren’t talking about Poe, then you can disregard all that ;p