We need examples of good as well as bad, though (Gaming)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, March 22, 2018, 09:38 (2439 days ago) @ Harmanimus

That’s actually a really good example of dealing with toxic masculinity is like. I won’t get into a big discussion on ge personal side. But I don’t hesitate to use the term because I would rather accurately describe a circumstance than try to find language that others don’t misuse. Your point about positive examples is very important. Positive examples (or other more direct methods of learning to deal with limited emotional toolsets and avoid reaching a level of toxicity) are important because most humans are to at least some degree observational learners. You hit the nail with many myths being used for that purpose. That Same purpose seen in fables and other both more literal and abstract learning devices also built to entertain.

While I can see the perspective that TLJ doesn’t have any positive role models I cannot accept it. Luke being a very explicit example of a character who is flawed (true to all heroes [aside: Rey is also flawed in many ways mirroring Luke] that are worh learning from) but also heroic. He has made mistakes and he has had to deal with the consequences. However he also expresses a great deal of emotions, can be introspective and explorative of his own experiences, failures, and feelings without placing that burden solely on a romantic counterpart. He learns from his negative behaviors to become better, while also showing that sliding back into old, bad habits can still be overcome.

Poe is another example of someone who we see over the course of the movie make bad choices but eventually learns how to be a better leader for those experiences. That also brings us to Leia. Who is literally Poe’s greatest hero and who he looks up to for his guidance and learning. I think it is foolish to use the societal biases to discount the positive examples of actions without assigned gendered biases. There are many well developed women characters who are not only positive role models for girls and women but for boys and men as well. While often not intentional (and your acknowledgement of maternal influence isn’t unnoticed and is likely a sign of a well rounded human being) many men will immediately discount women as worthy examples because of the insidious naure of social structures which teach them to internalize the feminine as inferior instead of just a different descriptor.

Leia is a bright shining star of an example of someone rooted as an established positive while Luke shows us a similar example to look up to through someone going through a process of overcoming a mistake. Poe is initially shown as someone refusing to overcome his mistake and the damage it causes while Holdo is an example of someone who is rooted in a structure which is causing damage to the same shared goal.

So, yes, everyone should have positive examples to look toward. But we also have to be internally aware to look at all the examples to hopefully avoid the traps that cultural toxicity brings.

Just wanted to clarify real quick that I actually do think TLJ has examples of positive male role models (as you very nicely described). That’s part of where Kermit and I disagree on the movie. But where he and I agree is that positive role models are a crucial ingredient in mythology :)