On content and why we're drowning in it. (Destiny)

by narcogen , Andover, Massachusetts, Tuesday, March 24, 2015, 01:29 (3780 days ago) @ Cody Miller

That is not a criticism. That is the ultimate confirmation that Bungie has made the right decisions, not the wrong ones, and that the investment hooks work so well that people keep playing beyond the point where they should but are unable or unwilling to stop.

You act as though putting a game down and finishing it is somehow bad, and that the more you play the better the game. I thought you were smart man.

I'm smarter than the me that's in your head, that says things I don't say.

I cannot believe you just said that. I really can't. Do you have any idea of QUALITY vs QUANTITY?

Yes, I do!

I cannot stand anything but PvP and occasional raids and nightfalls anymore. That time you say people are spending the game beyond when they should stop is time where they are doing repetitive, boring ass shit. I get that you play at a more leisurely pace than some of us. I get why you might not see it yet.

That's mostly my point. The fact that the game reaches that point-- that ANY game reaches that point-- is not a criticism in and of itself. Games are finite. What I don't get is how people are considering Destiny worse than Halo because it is repetitive, when it is entirely within the individual's power to decide when they've consumed the content.

Day 1 I complained the endgame was shit aside from the raids. And I can only run them so many times before I want something new. I have guns I'd love to try but can't because I'd have to spend upwards of 6 hours over 3 days leveling them up to get the perks that make them worthwhile. It's not worth my time, but plenty of people would do it even though leveling guns is fucking boring.

Actually I find leveling guns to be fun and rewarding. Playing through variations of the strikes using the same maxed-out guns, the ones that are ideal for certain situations, does get boring. Taking on those same circumstances with less than ideal weaponry so I can level them up makes those situations more challenging, and completely changes the way you have to play. I find most of that has to do with the special weapon slot-- there's not a lot you can't grind through by keeping your distance and spamming icebreaker, but when you've got a fusion rifle in that slot you are trying to level up-- perhaps one with the wrong damage type-- things change completely. I find that fun and interesting. But when I stop finding it fun and interesting, I'll stop doing it without somehow blaming it on Bungie that I've run out of "content".

if you ever say "the investment hooks work so well that people keep playing beyond the point where they should but are unable or unwilling to stop." then your investment hooks are complete and utter shit.

No, they are doing their job. It is not the job of the developer or the investment system to tell anyone when or why they should stop playing. It's to give them a reason to play-- even if according to the standards of the way the previous game was designed, the game has been "finished".

It's really simple. Ask yourself: would I do this if I got no reward? If the answer is no, then you don't really want to be doing it, and when players do it because the system forces or manipulates them to, Bungie is wasting their time when they could be doing something they'd actually enjoy.

You have missed the point entirely. That is the point of the investment system, and it is not "forcing" it on anyone. I can only speculate about why Bungie wants this kind of stickiness-- I'd imagine that players who play on a regular basis buy DLC more often-- but obviously they want a situation where instead of breezing through 10 hours of campaign you then sit on your hands for 6 months to three years waiting for new content, you're playing variations on the old content right up until the new stuff drops.

As far as time goes, I think that is also exactly the point. The investment system probably takes far less time to create and maintain than new content does. If you're complaining that the guy who maintains loot tables and upgrade systems and the like could somehow contribute to the content pipeline and get us new strikes and raids that much faster, you're nuts. The whole point of that system is to shuffle what we have around in ways that are interesting enough, long enough, for enough people, that enough of them are still engaged when the next batch of content is ready.

Your criticism of the Halo games is also off base, since while you have to wait three years for more content, that content will be of better quality because it is not DLC, than if the equivalent amount of content were released as DLC in chunks over the period of three years. It's not like Bungie is the only company making video games. Play something else while you wait.

No, I stand by what I said, and I think what you said is nonsense. Of all the Halo games there was one that was developed like DLC-- and that was ODST, arguably the best of the bunch. Small team, existing technology, rapid iteration. (Leave the pricing out of it, as Bungie apparently didn't control that.)

Content does not magically improve in quality because it is or is not "DLC". That's an idiotic knee jerk reaction that characterizes the DLC model as being a ripoff, when in actuality... only some of it is.

I can, and do, play other things "while I wait" but I honestly doubt that forms a meaningful portion of Bungie's own development strategy; nor should it.