On content and why we're drowning in it. (Destiny)

by narcogen , Andover, Massachusetts, Tuesday, March 24, 2015, 03:58 (3780 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Because it's the player's job to decide when to stop. I'd say it's the developers job to always offer some reason to keep going. If the offer isn't enticing enough, you stop, but I don't think there's much value in a "game over" screen that's not a failure state.

Imagine you are me on September 9th. 6am, having finished the main Destiny story.

Okay, I'll bite and actually reply. However it is worth noting that I never ruin a Bungie game for myself-- or indeed any game I'm looking forward to playing-- by binging on it that way.

The raid sounds like it will be awesome, but it starts at level 26. I am 20. Going from 20 to 26 requires the worst type of grinding. I want to play the raid. What am I supposed to do?

Didn't you say that if the thing isn't worth doing for itself, you should not do it? So what you should have done, according to your own advice, is stop playing there. The promise of the raid should not have been, according to your own statements, sufficient carrot to keep doing "the worst kind of grinding".

Of course, it turns out it was, and you did, which is again an endorsement of Bungie's design decisions and not a criticism of them. You're performing an ex post facto justification for why your continued play of a game you profess to dislike isn't evidence of why your prejudices-- from before the game was ever released-- were incorrect.

I've got five characters and only one, the very last, ever experienced something I'd characterize as a "grind"-- a titan that got stalled between 24 and 26 (post Dark Below) just could not get the right armor drops to level up. C'est la vie.

Well, I could do what you did and wait, but if I did I know I would not have gotten the experience I did by doing it second 1. I saw your videos. You had funkmon tell you how the mechanics worked. The BEST part of the raid - uncovering and figuring out this weird new set of items and bosses and abilities, was totally lost on you.

This is one of the only things I really do feel like I've missed out on with Destiny, and it's a reason why I like End of Crota better than the Vault of Glass. Given timezones and whatnot, it's challenging to schedule a full fire team I can get in on. Secondly, I wanted the podcast episodes to be a "first run" for as many people as possible. This was communicated to our regulars, but for one reason or another, it usually ended up that I was the only one left who hadn't already done a raid by the time the scheduled recording day arrived.

The other thing is that my hard drive space is limited-- I couldn't record the hours that a virgin run takes and then edit it down, I just don't have the space. So I struck the best compromise I could-- we started out each area without advice or explanation, experienced a few of the failures that new players would, and then got the advice.

On the one hand I stand by the decision, but I have decided that I will try and get in on the HoW raid sooner rather than later.

One of the reasons why I like the EoC raid better is that the first part, at least, is more accessible to solo players, and as an utterly average player I've still been part of raid runs that feature as few as four.

[snip]

but I don't think there's much value in a "game over" screen that's not a failure state.

No. This is REQUIRED for a good game! It's called an ending, and it means that you have finally mastered the game.

The goal of this game is to experience it, not to master it, because there is no mastery. Given that all the progression is character progression, rather than player progression, you have no more mastered the game at level 32 with maxed out exotics than you have at level 20 playing with green and blue weapons. In fact, since the game is harder under those conditions, you'd be better off doing that, or pulling stunts like Datto did with the group doing Crota with all green weapons.

This game isn't supposed to have a logical end point. The end point is when you decide to stop playing (or pause playing until they make more content) and then whenever they decide to stop making that content and make something else.

If you're unable to determine the criteria for making those decisions, then you're going to have a bad time, and it sounds like you are. No reason to try and drag the rest of us-- or indeed Bungie-- with you because of your personal delusion that your criticism is tough love aimed at improving a game you see as fatally flawed. It isn't. You just don't like it much, which is fine. Heck, that was the majority opinion at release!

Now go play Bloodborne and give us a rest, sheesh!