For the record (Gaming)
So. Hmm. I don’t disagree with your point. I don’t think crunch is inherently bad. Working long, tough hours can be beneficial and rewarding. I think the current video game industry takes that to the extreme, and I don’t get the feeling it’s done in a healthy, beneficial way, but rather in the series capitalistic way of taking advantage of workers.
I do disagree with your final paragraph about God of War though. I absolutely think they could have made that game without actually having to suffer away from their families for so long. People have better imagination and artistic abilities than that, I think. In any case, even if what you say is necessary to make that game, I’d rather have the good but not masterpiece version of that game than to force people to endure such shit conditions. If the driving force of your narrative is mirroring your actual life in the way you are neglecting your children and that neglect is necessary to make the art, I’d argue that’s not a worthy trade off at all.
Here’s where I’d make an important distinction though. Who’s forcing these people to do it? Because if they literally are being forced, then I think I’d fully agree with you. But they aren’t being forced. They’re choosing to dedicate such large amounts of their time to the project. Now I know that’s a bit easier to say about the team leads, for whom this game is very important on a personal level. But maybe there are 80 people on the team who don’t care, and would rather be putting in 40 hour work weeks (at this point in my life, I’d fall into the latter group). One could say that even if nobody is forcing those people to crunch, they feel like they must so as not to be replaced. But that can only be true if there are other people willing and eager to take their place, crunch and all. Which just points to my original statements that some people like throwing themselves into a project on that level. And perhaps that’s what it takes to get a job at Sony Santa Monica. They’re trying to be the best in the world, and there’s zero evidence that you can achieve that within a 40 hour work week.
Again, I’m not trying to defend practices that burn people out and destroy families... far from it. I AM saying that maybe most people aren’t cut out to be THE BEST. Maybe success in creative, competitive industries like video game development takes a certain amount of sacrifice.
I do however think there are examples of crunch that are far tougher, if not impossible, to justify. I look at what some of the teams behind the big annual sports titles go through; cranking out a game in 9-10 months, year after year, not given any of the time or space needed to make real improvements, worked into the ground... I can’t find much to defend in those kinds of practices. For me, if we’re going to try to sway parts of the industry away from crunch practices, starting with the studios who are creating the greatest games ever made is probably not the right approach. I’d rather call out the studios cranking out garbage mobile game after garbage mobile game and stuff like that.
Complete thread:
- Quantic Dream - Dust has Settled -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-24, 11:02
- Crunch -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-24, 14:09
- For the record -
MartyTheElder,
2020-05-24, 16:04
- For the record - Cody Miller, 2020-05-24, 16:30
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-24, 18:26
- For the record -
cheapLEY,
2020-05-24, 18:55
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-24, 22:21
- For the record -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-25, 00:19
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 09:11
- For the record -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-25, 10:24
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 10:50
- For the record -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-25, 11:18
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 13:29
- For the record - Cody Miller, 2020-05-25, 16:18
- For the record - MacAddictXIV, 2020-05-26, 08:24
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 13:29
- For the record -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-25, 11:18
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 10:50
- For the record -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-25, 10:24
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 09:11
- For the record -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-25, 00:19
- For the record -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-24, 22:21
- For the record - Cody Miller, 2020-05-24, 20:28
- The vilest bullshit -
General Battuta,
2020-05-25, 20:41
- The vilest bullshit -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 21:31
- The vilest bullshit -
General Battuta,
2020-05-25, 21:37
- The vilest bullshit -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 22:54
- The vilest bullshit - General Battuta, 2020-05-26, 08:04
- "The Suffering Artist" Cliché -
INSANEdrive,
2020-05-26, 10:20
- "The Suffering Artist" Cliché - Cody Miller, 2020-05-26, 11:22
- "The Suffering Artist" Cliché -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-26, 12:38
- "The Suffering Artist" Cliché -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-26, 13:11
- +1 - MacAddictXIV, 2020-05-26, 13:41
- "The Suffering Artist" Cliché -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-26, 14:07
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 15:51
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-26, 16:43
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 17:20
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-26, 18:07
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 23:55
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Kermit,
2020-05-27, 10:17
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-27, 10:20
- Romanticization of the Artist -
MacAddictXIV,
2020-05-27, 10:49
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-27, 11:03
- You are insufferable -
Pyromancy,
2020-05-27, 11:26
- You are insufferable -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-27, 12:00
- You are insufferable *IMG* - Pyromancy, 2020-05-28, 14:15
- You are insufferable -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-27, 12:00
- Romanticization of the Artist -
breitzen,
2020-05-27, 17:13
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-27, 18:20
- On the Value of Art -
breitzen,
2020-05-28, 08:07
- On the Value of Art -
cheapLEY,
2020-05-28, 08:34
- On the Value of Art -
breitzen,
2020-05-28, 09:17
- On the Value of Art - cheapLEY, 2020-05-28, 09:26
- On the Value of Art -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-28, 09:36
- On the Value of Art - cheapLEY, 2020-05-28, 10:00
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Kermit,
2020-05-28, 13:35
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-28, 13:45
- O_O... >_>... ._. - INSANEdrive, 2020-05-28, 14:28
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-28, 17:16
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) - Robot Chickens, 2020-05-28, 17:37
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
cheapLEY,
2020-05-28, 17:19
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-28, 18:06
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-28, 18:31
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-28, 18:42
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-29, 11:35
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) - cheapLEY, 2020-05-29, 12:25
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-29, 11:35
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-28, 18:42
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-28, 18:31
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-28, 18:06
- I can't believe you didn't mention Journey. ;-) -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-28, 13:45
- On the Value of Art -
breitzen,
2020-05-28, 09:17
- On the Value of Art -
cheapLEY,
2020-05-28, 08:34
- On the Value of Art -
breitzen,
2020-05-28, 08:07
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-27, 18:20
- You are insufferable -
Pyromancy,
2020-05-27, 11:26
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-27, 11:03
- Romanticization of the Artist -
MacAddictXIV,
2020-05-27, 10:49
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-27, 10:20
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Kermit,
2020-05-27, 10:17
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 23:55
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-26, 18:07
- Romanticization of the Artist (this got long) -
Vortech,
2020-05-26, 18:07
- *Slow clap* - MacAddictXIV, 2020-05-27, 08:06
- +1 - marmot 1333, 2020-05-27, 10:43
- A+ - kidtsunami, 2020-05-27, 11:11
- That last paragraph may be a thread killer. I like it. - INSANEdrive, 2020-05-27, 11:54
- Nice. - Kermit, 2020-05-27, 15:35
- I think we finally did it -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-27, 18:23
- We're Doing Guys?? 0.o -
Morpheus,
2020-05-27, 21:09
- We're Doing Guys?? 0.o - Robot Chickens, 2020-05-27, 21:22
- We're Doing Guys?? 0.o -
Morpheus,
2020-05-27, 21:09
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 17:20
- Romanticization of the Artist - bluerunner, 2020-05-26, 16:45
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-26, 16:43
- Romanticization of the Artist -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 15:51
- "The Suffering Artist" Cliché -
Robot Chickens,
2020-05-26, 13:11
- The vilest bullshit -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 22:54
- The vilest bullshit -
General Battuta,
2020-05-25, 21:37
- The vilest bullshit - Kermit, 2020-05-25, 21:35
- The vilest bullshit -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 21:31
- For the record -
cheapLEY,
2020-05-24, 18:55
- For Future Reference -
INSANEdrive,
2020-05-29, 11:25
- Insane might be a spam account -
unoudid,
2020-05-29, 18:48
- O_o ... Wat? - INSANEdrive, 2020-05-29, 19:16
- Insane might be a spam account -
unoudid,
2020-05-29, 18:48
- Crunch -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-24, 16:17
- Crunch - CruelLEGACEY, 2020-05-24, 17:42
- Minor Qubbles -
INSANEdrive,
2020-05-24, 16:59
- +1 - someotherguy, 2020-05-25, 08:37
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
General Battuta,
2020-05-25, 20:37
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 21:55
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-25, 22:01
- Reading comprehension, Cody :) - CruelLEGACEY, 2020-05-25, 22:56
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
General Battuta,
2020-05-25, 22:03
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 23:20
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
General Battuta,
2020-05-26, 06:28
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
squidnh3,
2020-05-26, 07:22
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
General Battuta,
2020-05-26, 07:22
- You don't understand anything about crunch. - Cody Miller, 2020-05-26, 07:38
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
unoudid,
2020-05-26, 07:38
- You don't understand anything about crunch. - General Battuta, 2020-05-26, 08:06
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 08:38
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
unoudid,
2020-05-26, 09:17
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-26, 12:07
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 12:18
- You don't understand anything about crunch. - CruelLEGACEY, 2020-05-26, 12:43
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 12:18
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-26, 12:07
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
unoudid,
2020-05-26, 09:17
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
General Battuta,
2020-05-26, 07:22
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
squidnh3,
2020-05-26, 07:22
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
General Battuta,
2020-05-26, 06:28
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 23:20
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-25, 22:01
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... -
Claude Errera,
2020-05-26, 10:41
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... -
MacAddictXIV,
2020-05-26, 10:52
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... -
EffortlessFury,
2020-05-26, 10:57
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... -
MacAddictXIV,
2020-05-26, 12:30
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... - EffortlessFury, 2020-05-26, 16:38
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... -
MacAddictXIV,
2020-05-26, 12:30
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... -
EffortlessFury,
2020-05-26, 10:57
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... - cheapLEY, 2020-05-26, 11:01
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... - Kermit, 2020-05-27, 15:10
- Probably a bad idea to jump in now... -
MacAddictXIV,
2020-05-26, 10:52
- You don't understand anything about crunch. -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-25, 21:55
- For the record -
MartyTheElder,
2020-05-24, 16:04
- Crunch is inherently toxic -
someotherguy,
2020-05-25, 08:15
- Crunch is inherently toxic - CruelLEGACEY, 2020-05-25, 10:24
- Crunch is inherently toxic - Cody Miller, 2020-05-25, 10:38
- The Survey -
Cody Miller,
2020-05-26, 16:17
- Heh, cool -
ZackDark,
2020-05-26, 16:51
- All You need to know about this game - Cody Miller, 2020-05-27, 00:06
- Heh, cool -
ZackDark,
2020-05-26, 16:51
- The Game - Cody Miller, 2020-05-27, 12:37
- Crunch -
CruelLEGACEY,
2020-05-24, 14:09