A few points (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Thursday, September 03, 2015, 22:44 (3466 days ago) @ Cody Miller

Got it. Levels are practically irrelevant.

I am really afraid this is going to be a step back. If anything, our progression needs to be completely decoupled from gear, and paradoxically this new system seems to be even more gear focused than the current system.

I was listening to Claude's point on the most recent podcast, and his argument was this: Currently, there is no difference between a 33, and a 33 and three quarters, even though one has more light than the other. This results in gains that aren't really gains, since they don't end up mattering until you hit the light tier to bump up a level. Therefore, he thought, that the new system, where an increase in even one light actually makes you stronger, is an improvement.

Right now, if you are 4 levels below an enemy, you do no damage. In Taken King, if you are 40 light below an enemy, you do no damage. Everything is just stretched out, and is not fundamentally different.

At least with the current system, you have a variety of ways to reach level 34 and then not really have to worry about progression. You can mix and match exotics, ascended legendaries, PoE gear, Trials Gear, Iron Banner gear, etc. I think it's safe to say that nearly everyone had an easier time to 34 in HoW than to 30 at launch.

The thing that worries me, is that the new light system will create the need to perpetually improve and progress your character to do the content. In HoW, hitting 34 was much easier, and when you did, you were done and were free to do what the game offered. Because everything is spread out now, there could very well be end game content that requires more and more work to get extra light. I imagine, that the higher and higher you go, the harder it will be to obtain those light levels. Especially with the infusion system, it appears that the grind for gear will only be worse, more pervasive, and more necessary.

I ultimately think that character progression systems just do not work for games that are open ended. If you look at the campaign missions when Destiny came out, the progression actually works and is very fun. The reason it works, is that the experience from 1-20 is crafted out in a series of missions, which are built to adjust in difficulty as your power up your character. But that only works if your game has an end, and Destiny does not.

Paradoxically, your gear is more important in Taken King than it is now! If you are 34, you can still get by with weapons that aren't leveled up all the way, but in Taken King, since your light level factors your weapons in as well, you are simply going to have to grind for two types of gear, not just one. You will have to grind for guns to feed your gear via infusion.

I can't really form an opinion since I haven;t played it, but as info comes out, it appears a step in the wrong direction.

Claude is right about there needing to be multiple 'gates'. The highest tier gate though, should offer you nothing, and once you reach that tier, you should not have to worry about progression at all; just your skill and the skill of your fireteam. Further, the highest tier gate should not progress you at all; you should already be the max upon entering. In short, it should be completely about the experience and offer no gear at all, as well as have the most content.

If I understand correctly, the majority of your concerns hinge on a couple of assumptions which may or may not prove to be true.

First: the climb to 40.

From the look of things, much like year 1, the hunt for gear will be a major part of what drives the end game in TTK (note that I use the word "hunt" instead of "grind"... more on that later). I imagine the climb to 40 will be much like the climb to 20: we'll jump in and play the new story content and side quests, and by the time we're done we'll be at or close to 40. In my opinion, that's great. We're playing a bunch of new content that most of us will probably want to play, and leveling up in the process.

Next: the Hunt for Gear

This seems to be the part you are more concerned about. Now if TTK plays out like year 1, I'd say your concerns are justified. More specifically, if getting the gear you want is a matter of playing the same activities over and over, hoping for RNG to swing in our favor. However, based on everything Bungie has said, I don't think this will be the case (at least not to the same extent). First of all, it looks like we will have more determined, deliberate paths towards specific pieces of gear, which is awesome. Second, the new weekly bounty system looks like a nice way to reward top-level players without forcing them into repeating the same content over and over. Bungie has talked about adding more bounties that are not activity specific so that players can play the game however they want and still complete bounties.

So by the looks of things, acquiring new gear will not be the grind that it is now: I think the word "hunt" is more fitting. To me, it all sounds like a major improvement.