Concrete paths. (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Friday, September 04, 2015, 10:20 (3465 days ago) @ narcogen

If players feel the need to use tricks to bypass parts of your game, you've failed. People didn't seek ways to bypass levels in Halo.

That's bull and you know it, especially as a speedrunner. There are LOADS of tricks in Halo to skip levels or portions of levels and players use them all the time.

By this measure, nearly every game is a failure. That you would think so is hardly surprising.

Name me one person who skipped any part of the level the first time they played the game. Nobody. You resort to that when you've exhausted the normal possibilities the game offers and want to push it further.

What the heck has "first time" got to do with it? The first time you don't even know those avenues are available. It takes exploration to find them.

The point Cody is making is that speed running in Halo was not about bypassing "content". It was another challenge in and of itself. As you point out, it required loads of exploration and practice. In a wholistic sense, the goal of speed running is not to shave time off your gameplay experience (since it actually requires more time in the form of practice). It is about finding new challenges once the main content has been exhausted.

Really, I don't think Speed running fits into this conversation at all. It isn't remotely related to the idea of bypassing an investment system.

People also tricked Halo for the sake of tricking. There were no rewards.

That doesn't support your contention in the least. So tricking to maximize loot is proof of bad design, and tricking for its own sake is proof of good design?

I'm not sure you even know what your proposition is anymore, you're just gainsaying me.

The difference to me is that if someone is tricking for the sake of tricking, it is because they enjoy it. They're having fun with the game. But what happened with Destiny year 1 is some people were playing the game in ways they didn't enjoy just to get loot. Ironically, this is true of people who played the game "legit" just as much as it is true of people who spent days in front of the loot cave.

Bungie clearly sees the problem as well, since they're making drastic improvements to the way we find gear in TTK.

Now, any time this topic comes up, there are always responses like "that's the players fault", "why do you need all the weapons?", or "just play the game in a way that's fun for you and don't chase loot". All fair points. I can't speak for others, but I'd like to explain why I personally feel the need to chase gear in Destiny even if it means doing activities I don't enjoy.

For me, new gear is a huge part of Destiny's replay value. Something as simple as using a different primary weapon can breath new life into a mission I've run dozens of times. So I want as many new and different weapons as possible, because they allow me to experience the same content in different ways.

In Destiny year 1, this sometimes meant playing specific activities over and over just to get new gear. It meant doing an activity I don't enjoy now in order to have more fun later. It was either that or stop playing Destiny all together, and I didn't want to stop because I do love the game overall and it is how I spend time with my friends.

Again, it appears to me that Bungie sees this as a problem as well, since they're changing the way acquiring gear works in TTK. It looks promising to me :)