The problem is...

by breitzen , Kansas, Tuesday, April 23, 2013, 08:27 (4231 days ago) @ kapowaz

As ever, the devil is in the details. This is why I take issue with this kind of sweeping, generalising Cody decree: it has massive collateral damage for things that an awful lot of players do enjoy (consciously or otherwise), not only in modern games (as Cody would have you believe) but also in older generation games dating all the way back to coin-op arcade games. What is effect of the power pill in Pac-Man other than a reward? Mario's temporary invulnerability? Extra lives for reaching so many points? Smart bombs in shoot ‘em ups? History is replete with examples of positive reward mechanics in games.

I think the biggest difference in the older games (Pac-Man, Mario, even arcade shooters) is that it's all part of the primary mechanics (right?). I mean any reward your getting is to help you through the game, not getting you XP or whatever. So I agree that these are positive examples, but they are so because its part of a temporary game. You didn't have a medal chest or achievement list to show off. Only your name at the top of the list. You were never doing "secondary mechanics" because the game was king

As someone who played arcade games for only a few years near the end of their time, I'm doing a lot of speculation. It seems like the rise of these "secondary mechanics" that reward players is a fairly new. I love stat tracking, but when the secondary mechanics take over the primary mechanics I take issue with that. I feel like newer games with xp leveling is a big problem, (Maybe rankings in general?) because people can just grind. Reach was the first Halo game I felt like that, H3 had rankings, but it did take skill to reach high rankings, where as Reach and H4 both only require time to reach your visible rank.

Idk, I'm running on a Full Throttle right now so it's hard to concentrate! But there are some more thoughts!
Let me know if I'm wrong! ;)

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Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Cody Miller, 2013-04-19, 16:13
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - ZackDark, 2013-04-19, 17:00
  - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Cody Miller, 2013-04-20, 11:26
    - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-20, 12:01
      - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - stabbim, 2013-04-23, 09:09
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-19, 17:00
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Ragashingo, 2013-04-19, 17:42
  - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Cody Miller, 2013-04-19, 17:49
    - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Malagate, 2013-04-19, 18:13
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-19, 18:53
- "Only a Miller deals in absolutes." -Oobedoob Benubi - Leviathan, 2013-04-19, 20:18
  - Worst thought out line ever in a movie - ZackDark, 2013-04-19, 20:21
    - Worst thought out [...] movie. - Leviathan, 2013-04-19, 21:47
      - Battles were pretty sweet, though - ZackDark, 2013-04-19, 22:04
        
        Contradicts "Do or Do Not, There is No Try" - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-20, 07:03
        
        And "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" - Quirel, 2013-04-20, 22:50
        
        I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough. It gets everywhere - Cody Miller, 2013-04-21, 13:06
        
        You don’t want to sell me death sticks. - Xenos, 2013-04-21, 14:37
        
        "I thought they smelled bad on the outside." - ZackDark, 2013-04-21, 16:20
        
        WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... - Leviathan, 2013-04-21, 19:14
        
        WRONG TRILOGY! How dare you... - ZackDark, 2013-04-21, 21:58
        
        This thread is getting heavy, Doc. - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-22, 08:24
        
        Is that a quote from VII? - Xenos, 2013-04-22, 08:52
        
        We've been here before, - Chewbaccawakka, 2013-04-22, 10:02
        
        It is a strange fate... - Mr Daax, 2013-04-22, 22:26
        
        That is the sound of inevitability... - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 06:48
        
        Is that a quote from VII? - Cody Miller, 2013-04-22, 10:45
        
        Not just the men, but the WOMEN, and the CHILDREN too! - Cold, 2013-04-22, 11:48
        
        Now THIS is Pod Racing! - Cody Miller, 2013-04-22, 14:08
        
        It's working! It's workiiiiiiiing! - ZackDark, 2013-04-22, 14:09
        
        Holy Nostalgia - katancik, 2013-04-22, 20:47
        
        Yippeee! - Quirel, 2013-04-22, 20:54
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Kalamari, 2013-04-20, 09:24
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-20, 10:58
- yes - Decom, 2013-04-20, 14:44
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Jillybean, 2013-04-21, 05:49
  - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - ZackDark, 2013-04-21, 08:46
    - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Jillybean, 2013-04-21, 09:09
      - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - ZackDark, 2013-04-21, 09:28
      - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - John Hopson, 2013-04-22, 07:27
  - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Cody Miller, 2013-04-21, 09:09
    - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Jillybean, 2013-04-21, 09:11
      - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Cody Miller, 2013-04-21, 09:32
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Jillybean, 2013-04-21, 09:38
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - General Vagueness, 2013-05-09, 12:51
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Ragashingo, 2013-05-09, 13:13
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-21, 09:50
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-21, 12:34
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-21, 13:39
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 07:00
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 07:40
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 08:01
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 08:11
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Claude Errera, 2013-05-09, 13:21
  - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - kapowaz, 2013-04-22, 09:14
    - The problem is... - breitzen, 2013-04-22, 10:23
      - The problem is... - kapowaz, 2013-04-23, 01:43
        
        The problem is... - breitzen, 2013-04-23, 08:27
        
        The problem is... - Xenos, 2013-04-23, 10:04
        
        The problem is... - breitzen, 2013-04-23, 10:37
        
        Glad we agree :) - Xenos, 2013-04-23, 10:44
        
        Whoo!!!! - breitzen, 2013-04-23, 10:52
    - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Cody Miller, 2013-04-22, 10:44
      - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Jillybean, 2013-04-22, 11:57
        
        Great Explanation! - breitzen, 2013-04-22, 12:35
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - uberfoop, 2013-04-22, 23:31
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 07:19
        
        Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Jillybean, 2013-04-24, 08:00
        
        Why reward-motivated gaming can devalue the game experience - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 08:02
    - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - Cold, 2013-04-22, 12:04
      - Why rewards always devalue the game experience - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-22, 12:26
        
        Multitude of Difficulty Levels - Cold, 2013-04-23, 08:07
        
        Multitude of Difficulty Levels - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 07:30
        
        Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cold, 2013-04-24, 09:04
        
        Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cody Miller, 2013-04-24, 10:30
        
        Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 11:11
        
        Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cold, 2013-04-24, 12:47
        
        Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cody Miller, 2013-04-24, 13:04
        
        Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cold, 2013-04-24, 13:18
        
        Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cold, 2013-04-24, 12:44
        
        Difficulty Levels 1-7 - Cody Miller, 2013-04-24, 13:00
        
        That is the very point... - Cold, 2013-04-24, 13:07
        
        That is the very point... - Cody Miller, 2013-04-24, 13:11
        
        That is the very point... - Cold, 2013-04-24, 13:22
- This is one of my problems with playing online. - Mercury, 2013-04-22, 14:39
  - Spot on. - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 07:32
- Why rewards always devalue the game experience - stabbim, 2013-04-23, 09:02
- Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - electricpirate, 2013-04-23, 10:16
  - Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Cody Miller, 2013-04-23, 10:31
    - Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - electricpirate, 2013-04-23, 11:23
      - Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Cody Miller, 2013-04-23, 11:40
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-23, 12:11
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - electricpirate, 2013-04-23, 12:16
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Kermit, 2013-04-23, 12:25
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-23, 14:51
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Kermit, 2013-04-23, 16:26
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - thebruce, 2013-04-24, 07:47
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - stabbim, 2013-04-24, 09:35
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Cody Miller, 2013-04-24, 10:18
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 10:26
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - stabbim, 2013-04-24, 15:22
      - Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Cody Miller, 2013-04-28, 21:48
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - RaichuKFM, 2013-04-29, 03:58
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - thebruce, 2013-04-29, 06:42
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - Kermit, 2013-04-29, 08:36
        
        Swings and round-a-bouts, Mr. Miller - RC, 2013-04-29, 11:03
        
        Swings and round-a-bouts, Mr. Miller - Cody Miller, 2013-04-29, 11:39
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - electricpirate, 2013-05-03, 07:34
        
        Once again, Mr. Miller has it backwards - General Vagueness, 2013-05-09, 16:27
- Kinda OT but . . . - Jillybean, 2013-04-24, 08:05
  - Nope, you're the devil! *NM* - Xenos, 2013-04-24, 08:14
  - Kinda OT but . . . - SonofMacPhisto, 2013-04-24, 14:18
  - Kinda OT but . . . - Flynn J Taggart, 2013-04-24, 17:04
    - Kinda OT but . . . - Cody Miller, 2013-04-24, 19:26
- Not much to add to the current conversation, but... - Mr Daax, 2013-04-24, 16:01
  - +1. Always thought so too. - ZackDark, 2013-04-24, 17:12
  - Dude's a genuine 21st century Socrates - Stephen Laughlin, 2013-04-28, 20:19
- A short commentary on games design - Oz Mills, 2013-04-30, 08:15
  - A short commentary on games design - kapowaz, 2013-04-30, 15:22
    - A short commentary on games design - Oz Mills, 2013-05-01, 02:29
- SO WHO WON? - Cody Miller, 2013-04-30, 19:29
  - I wasn't aware we needed a winner. *NM* - Oz Mills, 2013-05-01, 01:42
  - EVERYBODY. - RaichuKFM, 2013-05-01, 03:48
    - EVERYBODY. - ZackDark, 2013-05-01, 08:39
  - Jury's still out - thebruce, 2013-05-01, 07:55
    - Jury's still out - Oz Mills, 2013-05-01, 08:18
  - Ahah oops! - Cody Miller, 2013-05-01, 15:23
    - Heh, they just had. =P - ZackDark, 2013-05-01, 20:38

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The problem is...