TLJ spoilers if you still haven't done a watching (Off-Topic)

by Harmanimus , Tuesday, January 23, 2018, 17:51 (2494 days ago) @ Kermit

Rey needs training. No, she doesn't. Luke is here, No, he isn't. Snopes is super powerful. No, he isn't. We need to go to the gambling planet. No, we don't. Self-sacrifice is heroic. No, it isn't. Leia just died. No, she didn't. Yoda is here to uphold tradition. No, he isn't. Kylo is turning. No, he isn't. Guys are dumb jocks. Um, yeah, can't argue with you there.

While I had thoughts to the prior post that would need additional gestation, this is actually probably more to what was causing said boggle.

Because I don't see any of those things as "No, X Yn't" because the movie actually sets most of those things up previous to the occurrences. For example:

Rey needs training.

And fails in her endeavors as she makes a mistake that she must learn from. She is far from not needing more training, but it is a parallel to Luke taking the bait in ESB which is one more reason he warns her against leaving. She is convinced she does not need training from Luke, so she fails to understand the lesson, which is telegraphed throughout her time on Ahch-To.

Self-sacrifice is heroic.

At no point does the movie actually speak about self-sacrifice as being heroic in the sense of our own aspirations. There is a mention of "dead heroes" after the costly, questionably successful opening attack - but that is used to underscore the fault of that thinking and emphasize that temporary victories are not always worth their costs. They telegraphed pretty far in advance that self sacrifice is costly and to be avoided except when left with no choice. This is why Poe is reprimanded in the beginning, Fynn is interrupted, and Rey is shown that her sacrificing her for the good she felt in Ben Solo is a failure - but Holdo is celebrated for protecting what she loved. I don't think Luke counts, because if he isn't a force ghost in IX I will eat my hat. (Not really, I like my hats)

Guys are dumb jocks.

Luke doesn't actually exist in this movie. Also, Don't Join.

Okay, I'm mostly being cheeky there. And I have points for everything on that list. I understand it is hyperbole to get a point across, but I think that line of thinking rides a tangent and doesn't reflect the film. I would be interested to see a perspective as such presented that is supported by the narrative, but most of what has gone around the internet hasn't been that.