Echo Chamber (Destiny)

by iconicbanana, C2-H5-OH + NAD, Portland, OR, Wednesday, December 03, 2014, 12:57 (3606 days ago) @ Spec ops Grunt
edited by iconicbanana, Wednesday, December 03, 2014, 13:00

was cody right?

This assumes the question: is Destiny fun?

There's no real way to be right or wrong about this, because the Cody side of the argument and the Leviathan/Raga side of this argument aren't really approaching the question from the same side.

Cody has looked to tackle the issue of investment the same way he would a skinner box. That's a legitimate concern. Bungie never approached games this way until Halo 3, and subsequently, Reach and now Destiny. Prior to that, most of the achievements I can recall were fan driven: vidmasters and such. Bungie's choice to approach Destiny as a full on investment/RNG machine has been an irritant to a lot of people that approached their earlier games from a challenge and skill perspective. I can agree there; I played Halo over and over because it was hard. All I got from it was the knowledge that I was good at it and could beat my friends in deathmatch. That's what's fun to some people who approach gaming, and so the investment system is an impediment, and possibly a detriment, to that attitude.

Raga and Leviathan would argue, I think, that the gameplay of Destiny is the point, and you shouldn't get wrapped up in completionism. To this line of thought, the skinner box is actually a sandbox, and if you enjoy playing in it, then play in it! If you don't like that sometimes sand gets kicked in your eyes, don't play in it! Investment and 100% completion aren't the point, and if you aren't having fun, you should play something that is fun.

I think the problem for Cody's crowd is that 100% completion IS fun. For a lot of people, that means mastery. And 100% completion should be difficult enough to engage the highest level of skill. That's why a flawless raider run is impressive. Doing so is fun. And things that prevent it from occurring (i.e. glitches, mindless grinds) are anti-fun. Raga might argue that he doesn't notice the grind and can let the experience come to him.

Crazy thing is, both of these positions can be right! Which is why despite Raga's persistent calls for the haters to leave, they won't. Because they don't hate the game. They hate the anti-fun stuff that's getting in the way of unlocking the biggest challenges. Raga might not really be concerned with the biggest challenges. That's why he's less offended by all this, and why he isn't necessarily wrong when he says what he says. He's just not right for everybody.

This is obviously summation for people whose opinions I don't share. But it is indicative of the problem (edit: "problem" is not the right word. work with me here) you see in this forum: the echo chamber. We'll have this debate endlessly. I honestly find it more entertaining than the game at this point. I just burned up a lunch hour writing it. Let's all try to recognize the echo chamber. I would argue it's also fun. It shows the real investment.

And DeeJ, if you stuck around, please. Remember we invest a lot in this. It's our freetime. We value it.