Why do you disagree? (Destiny)

by Kahzgul, Thursday, May 28, 2015, 15:29 (3261 days ago) @ Kermit

I'm of the opinion that loot systems need to account for outliers and include a raid loot counter that guarantees rewards every X raids in order to correct for the possibility of RNG-screwage.

I can't disagree with this enough.

Random is random.

- M

Why do you disagree? I'd really appreciate hearing some counterpoint.

I believe random is not a good reward system because - due to probability and statistics - there will be outliers who are never rewarded by that system. I feel like a good rewards system has (at the very least) checks in place to make sure that those outliers who are RNG screwed still get a reward at least some of the time so as to keep them feeling like the game is rewarding them.

Random is like saying "Hey guys, I designed our reward system! It's got a chance that no one gets anything, ever!" That's lame, and putting a couple of counters in for how many activities have been run since last loot to prevent that seems trivial

First, that's a lie about someone not getting anything, ever--many activities guarantee something--but you seem incapable of expressing yourself without hyperbole. The game provides the means for the most unlucky person to procure most of what they need to keep up with everyone else. I can't count the number of times I've had something drop for me shortly after I purchased said item. You treat RNG like it's the end all. RNG is an element of the game, but it's not the whole game.

You want the game not to have the random element, and I want to say that you want a different game, and you should find that game and go play it.

I like the RNG. It's exciting. I treat everything I get from it as a bonus. I might not get what I was hoping for, but you know, life doesn't work that way either.

True enough that you can earn marks and buy some items, and I really like that those avenues exist. I like that a LOT. It's really good that you can gear up to around 90% of the maximum possible best in slot gear through simple determination. There are, however, items that haven't been sold by Xur in a very long time and may never come back thanks to RNG (Gjallerhorn, for example), will never be sold (raid weapons), and are no longer sold (old vendor items from vanilla and CE), and items that require re-rolls in order to be maximally effective (all current tier vendor items, near as I can tell). To get those items, many of which are best-in-slot for PvP, you have to rely on RNG-based loot drops. I think that's lame. I understand that you disagree, but the argument that you can buy something that isn't as good doesn't make up for the fact that the best gear is still RNG based to one degree or another. Even if there is a comparable weapon on a vendor now, none of those vendor weapons come with ideal perks, so you have to rely on RNG again while you reforge, hoping for the perfect roll.

You are correct that players can earn some gear, but if that gear is noticeably deficient when compared to the RNG-only gear, that's frustrating to me and I don't like it.

To address your other point, I think that in many ways I do want a different game. I want the game that was advertised and hyped, and that I paid for. I want a game that lives up to the Bungie standards of plot, enemy behavior, and game design. I also want a game where hours and hours of "successful" raiding is rewarded, OR where the rewards from endless grinding are not requirements for top tier PvP play. I honestly feel like if the hardmode raids only dropped vanity items, I'd really like the game a lot more. I want a game where I play the same level over and over because it's a fun level and not because I have a 1% chance of it dropping the item that I want. I really feel like Bungie missed the boat on making fun the #1 priority and has actively reduced long-term fun with the RNG loot system.

I understand that you disagree, but I'm not really sure why you're so insistent that I'm somehow wrong to dislike it. I guess it's because you look at it as "bonus" and I look at it as "necessary to compete" which means that each failed RNG roll is, for me, another PvP game where I'm underpowered compared to someone else, or another hard mode raid where my team has to carry me because the loot I need for max level won't drop. I don't mind being beaten by skill, but I dislike being beaten by an inferior player who simply had better luck on his rolls, and I absolutely hate the feeling of holding the team back simply because my level isn't high enough despite making every possible effort to get that number higher.

TL;DR: I'm not done with the game because of the RNG loot system, but I do think it could be improved to prevent players from being perpetually screwed over by the rolls.