I think Bungie dropped the ball... (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Wednesday, May 27, 2015, 16:44 (3262 days ago)
edited by CruelLEGACEY, Wednesday, May 27, 2015, 16:58

No, this isn't being ghost-written by Cody ;p Wall of text incoming!

I made a post last week about my Prison of Elders first impressions.

http://destiny.bungie.org/forum/index.php?id=70394

I wasn't a fan. Now that I've spent some more time with the mode, I like it even less. Not only that, I now feel that the way Bungie has anchored the current PvE content around PoE is causing some serious problems. But it's not all doom and gloom. I think changes can be made that will help improve things quite a bit. I'm trying to write this in the spirit of "constructive criticism". I hope it comes across that way.

I'm a raid fanboy, so keep that in mind as well. All of this is coming from the point of view of someone who enjoys raids above all else in Destiny.

Why Raids Work:

Despite the flaws with Destiny's loot system (RNG frustrations, only 1 way to hit max level, etc), I think both raids were successful pieces of end game content because they succeeded in a variety of ways. They are both inherently compelling activities that reward teams for itterating and improving on their tactics. Players who take the initiative can find near-infinite replay value by changing the way they approach each encounter. Mastered the left side of the Templar conflux battle? Try the right side. Defending the gatekeeper sync plates too easy for you? Try going through the portal and taking the relic. If you're willing to break out of your comfort zone, you can always find new things to do.

Then, there's the loot. Both raids offer loot that is literally game changing. Fatebringer, Mythoclast, Black Hammer, and a selection of elemental primary weapons are very powerful tools. Plus each raid offers multiple chances for exotics to drop. As you aquier these tools, you gain even more new ways to experience the same content. Not just raids, but all of Destiny. It's a powerful loop; you raid, get a new tool, go back to story missions/strikes with some fresh excitement, upgrade your new tool in the process, take it back into the raid again which now plays a little different because you have a new tool at your disposal, earn ANOTHER new tool, repeat.

So, what's wrong with Prison of Elders?

I've outlined 2 main reasons why Raids work for me:
1) inherently compelling content that rewards players who come back repeatedly.
2) Compelling (if sometimes frustrating) loot cycle.

In my opinion, Prison of Elders fails on both points.

I went into a lot of detail in my post last week as to why I don't inherently enjoy PoE as a high level activity. The TL;DR version is that I find the arenas to be poorly designed, and the encounters lack the depth they need to make them enjoyable over and over again. Bungie clearly intended the PoE arenas to keep players moving, darting from position to position (as is evident by the complete lack of substantially defendable positions). On the higher levels (34 & 35), enemies are too powerful and deal too much damage for this playstyle to work. So what happens is players find any piece of cover that is remotely exploitable, hide behind it, and cheese their way through.

Then there's the issue of repeatability. The arenas themselves are so limiting that you don't have much in the way of options. You are forced to handle the more challenging waves the same way every time, because any slight change in your tactics results in certain death. It might take you several tries to figure out how to clear a specific encounter, but once you've got it, you've got it. And that's all there is to it. The objectives aren't complicated enough to warrant further exploration of tactics, and the enemies are too punishing to allow it even if you try.

Unlike the Raids, Prison of Elders changes over time. Every week we are given a new set of challenge modes to keep things "fresh". Sounds great in theory, but...

1) Change is only good if the changes are good, and
2) Constant change actually harms our ability to learn and master something.

To my first point; I played the new level 32 and 34 PoE challenges with Cyber and Mad Stylus last night. Our new level 32 event is... last week's level 34 event (2nd week and we're already in reruns?). And the level 34 event contains several of the most frustrating encounters in Destiny. Hordes of Major Hobgoblins shooting at you from all sides with little-to-no cover is not a good time. And the wave 5 boss? What a disaster. These are not the kind of battles that make you feel empowered or satisfied when you beat them. They make you put down the controller hoping you never have to do it ever again. If Bungie is going to be throwing new challenges at us every week, they need to do a better job designing these battles.

And to my 2nd point, I'm sure that given enough time the community will uncover reliable, trustworthy ways to conquer even the most challenging waves. They always do. But with a new set of challenges coming next week, it hardly seems worth the effort. Why bother when we'll have a new set of challenges in a few days?

The big picture

So I don't think Prison of Elders is a well implemented activity. Fine. But as I said way back at the start of this rant, I think the problems run wider than just this 1 game mode. Let's look at the overall "loop" for end-game PvE players. Even with the flaws in the RNG loot system, the Raids provide players with the best overall chance of acquiring top-level weapons and armor. Players spend weeks or even months chasing Fatebringers and Mythoclasts because these weapons are worth the effort. Yes, you will sometimes get through a raid without earning anything new, but at least you get multiple drops per raid, on top of a pair of chances at an exotic.

In Prison of Elders, you get 1 drop at the very end. We're already hearing plenty of complaints from players who spent 2 hours slogging their way through a level 34 challenge (not enjoying the experience, just hoping for loot) only to get disconnected or have something else go wrong towards the end. This is an infuriating and demoralizing situation moment when it happens.

But what about players who do make it through? It's gotta be worth it for them, right? In my opinion, the Queen's gear that drops from Prison of Elders is just not worth the time. There are countless better weapons and pieces of armor in the game. It's fine that this gear is available... I'm sure some people will enjoy individual items. But as a collection of "prized" equipment, it falls sorely short. The fallen-themed weapons are even worse. An entire family of weapons featuring "Shank Burn" as the specialty perk? Bungie must be trolling us (;p).

No, the loot isn't very good. Unless, you have a Treasure key. This is where Prison of Elders starts to poison the rest of the end-game experience. Taken as it's own thing, the Wolf Pack attacks are a cool addition to Destiny's open world. I love the camaraderie it brings to patrol mode, and the rush to find the loot chest is always exciting. That is, until you add the Treasure Keys into the mix.

From a loot point of view, the only time Prison of Elders comes close to being worth the time investment is if you have a treasure key going in. Keys are extremely hard to come by. One of the only ways to find them is from the Wolf Pack chests. So players search out and grind these events. A lot. Over and over and over. But the drop rate of these treasure keys is insanely low. I've completed dozens of these events, opening each chest 2, 3, or 4 times. Since House of Wolves launched, I haven't found a single treasure key.

So for Prison of Elders to yield decent loot, I need to grind another activity into the ground in the hopes of acquiring a few keys. All of this on top of the fact that PoE already gets stale very quickly.

So what can be done?

The shining star of the House of Wolves expansion is Etheric Light. With this currency, we can take any gear we want and bring it up to max level. We can build out our characters however we like, to suit any playstyle. Awesome. If only etheric light wasn't such a pain in the ass to find.
Well actually, it isn't a pain to find at all... for PvP players. 1 hour of playing Trials of Osiris granted me 3 pieces of Etheric Light, plus 2 awesome new weapons, plus a great chest piece, and a fist full of other worthwhile rewards (coins, motes of light, plenty of glimmer). And that was just 1 play through with a single character. If I run ToO every week with multiple characters, plus the Iron Banner once a month, I'll get a nice steady flow of Etheric Light and plenty of great gear drops along the way. And even when I'm not playing ToO or Iron Banner, standard crucible matches now dish out rewards at a fantastic rate. Last week, 2 hours of the skirmish playlist got me 3 great new legendary weapons.

I think Bungie needs take this approach and apply it to PvE end content. I've run 6 nightfalls and 3 raids since House of Wolves dropped... not a single piece of Etheric Light. I earned better gear in less time playing Skirmish than I did by completing all 3 nightfalls this week.

If the ultimate promise of Etheric Light is to allow us the freedom build our characters however we want, speced out for whatever activity we want, then it seems to me that a wider range of reliable ways to earn etheric light would be in keeping with the spirit of that goal. They should still be rare, just not as rare as they are now. Make them slightly more common drops during raids, nightfalls, and daily/weekly heroics. Perhaps 1 guaranteed piece of etheric light every time we rank up our Queen's rep. Let us treat Prison of Elders as the occasional diversion that it really is, rather than forcing it into the prime-time spotlight as the primary end game activity.

Phew... ok... I think I'm done.