When death is of no consequence, there is no challenge. (Destiny)

by Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) , Detroit, Sunday, August 10, 2014, 21:35 (3566 days ago) @ RC

Why is it not fair? Everyone gets one. They get a kill on you, you get 3 kills on them - congrats, you're winning!

It doesn't feel fair because they didn't earn it. Things that instantly kill should come with some risk/reward factor. It was given to them, or myself, without doing anything. They could earn it faster through killing, but that actually makes it worse, since there's no way to predict when they might have it again.

It's just like the boltshot in H4. You can choose to start with what is basically a shotgun, only it's given to you free. Getting killed by it feels cheap, since they didn't have to do anything to get it.

Sounds like you're trying to 'balance' it like Halo.

Why Halo? There are many games that make you earn power weapons. That isn't exclusive to Halo.

Look at how healthy that game's MP population... wait.

You mean after 343 (and to a lesser extent, Bungie) ruined it by trying to make it more accessible to new players, kinda like Destiny? Yeah, that Halo is shit, and it's struggling to maintain a player count in the low thousands.

Yet back when Halo had fair starts for all, it was the king. Wonder why that was? (Not that a large population means it's a good game. I mean, CoD is the king now, and that game is terrible.)

Thanks for helping prove my points! :P

There are other, valid, approaches to creating games. Ones that can maintain continuity between PvP and other areas of the game.

Why is that necessary? PvP and PvE are supposed to be different. Why should they operate by the same mechanics? Computer enemies aren't going to care if you kill them in a cheap way. Real people will be frustrated, though. Why not make it balanced for campaign in campaign, and balanced for multiplayer in multiplayer?

The numbers aren't accurate, but yes it's a thing. Armour pieces with 'dexterity' reduced your grenade cooldown and armour pieces with 'strength' reduced your melee cooldown. Armour pieces that have 'intellect' can reduce your super cooldown too - but there were no such pieces available in the Beta.

So you'll have an advantage in multiplayer, because the random loot generator decided you needed a chest peice that let's you get grenades faster, but I didn't.

How innovative.

A team fights for the map control that would allow a player to go pick it up undisturbed. If a team, working together, is willing to contract their presence for more Heavy ammo, that is their reward.
Therefore, there is obviously some skill, or knowledge, or coordination, or risk in getting that to happen in the first place, right? The possible annihilation that ensues is the reward - as long as you don't die before you use it!

Yes, coordination, which will never happen with a group of randoms because they can't speak to each other.

To the point, I can't really disagree. There's a point where the reward is too much, though. Six rocketeers would be unstoppable. If there's only one guy that gets the ammo, then he can only do so much damage. The other team has a chance to come back and win the war, despite losing the battle for ammo.

The game is giving it to you on a platter rather than forcing it on you. To be honest, Halo multiplayer often reduced to BR, BR, BR, Sniper, BR, BR, BR, Rockets, BR, BR, BR. Just BR if you weren't 'good enough' to grab rockets or sniper.

That was reffering to PvE. Halo's one gun to rule them all is something I'm not okay with either, but it's not what I'm talking about at the moment.

Why would I want to switch, anyway?

One good reason is this, just a couple of paragraphs above:

It gets pretty repetitive.

So to switch it up, I must limit my effectiveness. Got it... wait. Didn't you say the game is about maximizing effectiveness? I don't get it.

Yes, I'm sure these guys managed to do Devil's Lair in under 11 minutes only because their gear was SOO much better than yours.

I'll bet the strike didn't take them 45 minutes on their first playthrough, though. They aren't the noobs you mentioned in your first post. Those guys and the noobs are only going to get faster through better equipment (and terrain knowledge, but that goes without saying). They can't get better at learning the bosses' tactics, or find new strategies to take him down faster. The bosses have no tactics, and the only strategy is to shoot their weak points until they die. That's boring as hell, and unimaginative.

That shotgun was such a waste too. Should have no-scoped.

/sarc

Could have no-scoped. The sniper can do the shotgun's job, but the shotgun can't do the sniper's. That's why sniper is on a much higher tier, and why, given the choice, I'll always pick it over shotgun.