When death is of no consequence, there is no challenge. (Destiny)

by Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) , Detroit, Sunday, August 10, 2014, 18:35 (3567 days ago) @ RC

TL/DR: Destiny is about maximising effectiveness and optimisation rather than being able to have any effect at all.

This is perhaps one of the biggest changes to core direction from Halo, and it's catching some people out who are used to harsher realities.

In Halo, you were THE Master Chief, special because you were lucky, because you were one of the few that had survived. But Spartans never died, of course, they were only Missing-In-Action. Almost mythical, rare fighters that turned the tides of enormous battles on their own.

In Destiny, each Ghost is still a precious, limited resource, but an individual Guardian life is cheap. It's just a few seconds before you're back to killing. Guardians are super-hero undead. They've all experienced death before and will again - many, many times. Each individual Guardian is not the heroic saviour of all of humanity, but part of a legion of the undead, fighting collectively against The Darkness. You share the world and the glorious quest with many other Guardians.

The fundamental balance has shifted. Death isn't something to be avoided at all costs but, an inevitable part of the struggle. Failure, of a sort, is expected.

You die in a Strike: no big deal, you'll be back in 30 seconds anyway. Your teammates needn't get to a safe place like in Halo so you can spawn on them - you'll go back to a safe spot anyway. If you all die, you only go back a checkpoint in certain darkness zones and you still keep all your XP and ammo. Defeat is simply the addition of time, to a task you never asked for, but The Traveller imposed (spoiler: you are the Flood).

The measure of skill in Destiny isn't simply 'success', but the volume and potency of it.

This all sounds like gameplay serving story. That's completely backward. The most important part of a videogame is gameplay. A game isn't good with shitty gameplay and an amazing story. It can be decent, however, with amazing gameplay and a shitty story.

What you're basically saying here, is that there is no challenge in beating Destiny. The challenge is in speedrunning it. So what? I can speed run any game, what's your point?

Supers, grenades and power-melees all recharge. But are you going to get 1 cheap kill with your Super, or wipe out their entire team with it?

So, am I going to get one cheap kill, or six cheap kills? Neither seems fair.

Do you stomp on one noob rushing your defence, or use it to secure the crucial 2nd objective?

Or, knowing someone could be camping there with their super ready, do I even risk going to the second objective?

Everyone will get one Super every few minutes, anyway, but are you going to be the one getting it every 60 seconds? Are you generating Orbs of Light left and right for your team in a glorious synergy of death?

So you're saying here that you could use them well, or you could use them not so well. I don't see how that's a defense of supers. It could apply to anything in multiplayer.

My suggestion for supers is to have them picked up on the map, one in play at all times. Whoever has it has a waypoint above their head, visible to all (if friendly, the waypoint is green. If not, red). They have thirty seconds (or whatever, just spitballing here) to use it, or they lose it and a new one spawns. If they die, they don't lose it, but they'll still have a waypoint above their head.

This will help to keep people moving. People will want that super because it could esily turn the tide in the battle for that second objective. Adds a new layer of strategy, too. If you get the super, you can hold it so the other team(s) can't have it, but they'll know where you are on account of the waypoint. You'd have to remember how long you've had it, too. Or risk wasting it.

Doesn't that sound better, if not good?

Do you get grenades every 30 seconds, or every 10 because you've optimised your armour set up?

Real question, is that actually a thing?

Do you pick up the heavy ammo alone and get a few easy rocket kills, or is your entire team with you, all getting Heavy Ammo, and using it to wipe the enemy team several times? Do you sacrifice your team's positioning momentarily to secure all that extra heavy ammo and then push forward again?

I didn't touch on this, but I should have. Whoever holds X to pick up the ammo should be the only one to get any. They fought for it, they got there first, they won the prize. I didn't see it happen, but I can imagine a team of six people with loaded rocket launchers just annihilating the enemy team.

Can you imagine if that was how it worked in Halo? The enemy team were all gathered around the guy who picked up rockets, so now they all get rockets? Would anybody be okay with that?

At least Heavy ammo is lost when you're killed. That's a good move.

In Halo Slayer, getting a mutual melee kill usually wasn't that great for anyone.

That would depend on many factors.

But in Destiny Control, if you have 2 (or more) control zones, a mutual kill still puts you further ahead (by 50 or even 200 points). It's a perfectly valid move for you, and a bad result for your opponent's team. Unless it's to secure something bigger.

Can't really argue with that, not that I want to. It's just good strategy.

A Fallen Captain will still go down if you just hit it with your scout rifle over and over, but if a single Arc Sniper headshot puts it down, why aren't you doing that?

I am doing that. Every single time. I can always have the gun I want, so every enemy is just shot in the head. Scout rifle for weaker ones, sniper for the tougher ones. It gets pretty repetitive.

"Just use a different gun!"

So I have to create any variance, because the game doesn't provide any on its own? Why would I want to switch, anyway? The scout rifle/sniper combo is far and away the most effective in any situation (yes even close quarters. No scope!). Not good design.

Sure, any scruffy band of noobs can struggle through the Devil's Lair Strike in 45 minutes. But can they become an elite death squad and rip through it in 10 minutes?

Sure, through grinding for better weapons that do more damage per shot to leg/eyeball. Not through experience and mastering counters for all of the bosses' moves. The bosses don't have any moves, other than shooting at you. The tank stays in one place the entire fifteen minutes you fight it. Sepiks will teleport. Okay, so I just have to find where he went, and continue shooting his eye.

There's no mastering that. If you can do it faster, it's because you have better equipment.

I'm not entirely sure yet, but it looks like one of the best ways to get XP and gear (if you're into that sort of thing) will be by going hard and fast and getting end-of-level XP and gear bonuses.

Seemed to be the fastest way to rank up. Shooting Dregs in Explore were only ~15xp each. Completing a mission was in the thousands, and much faster.

For PvP, I'm not even sure skill matching was turned on in the Beta - if you thought you were stomping on everyone, it's quite possible they really were newbies and you haven't met your match yet.

Seemed to work like CoD. Just sets up a match as fast as possible without any skill check.

So, every new Guardian is a useful addition, but some Guardians are more useful than others.

Applies to every shooter.