Ragashigo's post is super important. (Destiny)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Monday, October 23, 2017, 09:55 (2380 days ago) @ Korny

So yeah, you could be like Speedracer and pay 40 bucks for an ornament. He seems fine with that. But the game is designed for any particular ornament to be frustrating to get. THAT is the problem. The game could easily be made so that obtaining ornaments is not only fun, but you can specifically choose which ones you want to earn.

That's the part I find indefensible... I would actually be more likely to buy a few items from the eververse from time to time if I could easily buy the exact one I wanted for a set price. But they had to go and add the layer of RNG into the mix, buying who knows how many engrams until you happen to get the amount of dust that you need to buy the item... I'm saying that the way they are implemented is clearly, obviously, designed to wring more money out of players than they would spend if given a straightforward marketplace. It's not the worst example of in-game microtransactions out there, but it is logically impossible to look at the eververse shop as it exists, and argue that it is designed to be a fair and player friendly marketplace.

How is it indefensible? The bright dust is not that difficult to get. Not only do you have a chance at seeing it drop fom a Bright Engram (I've seen it drop 1000 in one engram), but Ships, Sparrows, Legendary Shaders, and IIRC the Optimacy armor and Emotes all give you dust for dismantling them if you got them from a Bright Engram. If there's a specific thing that you really want, then wait for Eververse to sell it for dust.

Everything you're saying falls under the category of making it "tolerable" for the player...

There is very clearly a balancing act that Bungie is aiming to maintain. They are trying to make as much money through microtransactions as possible, while pissing off the players as little as possible. But make no mistake, earning money is the driving force, while pissing off the players is the "limit" that they are trying to avoid.
Given that, I'd say they are doing a pretty good job of maintaining that balance. It could be much, much, much worse. But it is naive to try and argue that any of this is done primarily for the benefit of the player.

So to clarify, when I say "indefensible", I'm saying that there is no way to pass off the eververse as "player friendly". Because it is inherently directed in the direction of "player manipulation". The very fact that you can't buy exactly what you want is proof of this. Any store on the planet that tried to operate that way would go out of business instantly, with the exception of businesses that are built on addictive practices (such as casinos). Everything around bright dust and bright engrams and all that stuff is just trying to soften the blow as much as possible. And I do legitimately appreciate it. But this is still one of those "don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining" situations. They are still trying to get people to spend more money than they would otherwise spend by adding an RNG layer to the purchase process.

At best, it can be described as being Bungie's attempt to find the point of "as exploitative and manipulative as players will tolerate".

Isn't that literally all business optimisations, though? In the real world, portions get smaller, prices go up subtly, the product is made with cheaper materials, etc. You act as though you're forced to buy all of these things, and companies should cater to you instead of their own interests. If you don't want to be exploited at all, then don't buy the product. You are not forced to do anything at all. In Destiny's case, they give you several avenues to the item that you want, while still encouraging players to spend money. Unless they start adding exclusive weapons or Mods to the store, I don't see an issue that isn't strictly self-imposed on the side of the player.

I already described how this is different than any other business, with the exception of gambling enterprises. But in addition to that, I already completed my business with Bungie. I bought their game. Now I'm perfectly realistic about the fact that microtransactions are just becoming a fact of modern games (but for the record, "everyone else does it" is never a good defense ;p). All I'm saying is that other companies have done a better job of adding extra revenue streams that weren't based on the exploitative foundation of RNG purchases. For some people (like Cody, I think) the very existence of a real-money "store" in their videogame feels distasteful. I'm not there, but I do totally understand where he's coming from. All I'm saying is that there are different ways to add a store into a game. Respawn did it the way any real-world store would operate: They display the goods, show their asking price, and let the player decide if the goods on display are worth the money. Bungie chose a more manipulative path. They then walked back to try and make it as inoffensive as they could, but they are still working from a manipulative foundation.

Again, I don't want people to think I'm blowing this out of proportion. I barely think about microtransactions in Destiny 2. It hasn't interfered with my gameplay experience. But, as someone who is willing to spend extra money on a game via microtransactions from time to time, the way Bungie has implemented the Eververse actually prevents me from spending real money, because they're pretending to sell items when what they're actually selling is gambling.