A calmer response (Destiny)

by someotherguy, Hertfordshire, England, Tuesday, June 23, 2015, 14:06 (3248 days ago) @ Miguel Chavez
edited by someotherguy, Tuesday, June 23, 2015, 14:12

I don't entirely disagree.

This fills me with hope actually. I'm not being facetious.

If you boil it down to "We want our dances" it IS pretty silly. But your attitude stinks. The guy is a "kid" and not a journalist why? Because he's asking questions a lot of people want to know?

Because Luke gave him his chance to reconsider his line of questioning but said journalist was going to stick to his faulty-guns and continue to come off like a whiner.

Again with the belittling. "Whiner" means nothing. It means "I don't agree so his opinion is invalid". It means "Pfft, grow up and accept it". He stuck to his guns because he felt he hadn't had a satisfying answer. Maybe a poor choice, but certainly not uncommon in an interview. I fail to see how it makes him a child, or a whiner.

Or is it his "bias" as a fan that makes his questions somehow less acceptable?

If you come off like some random person posting in a Q&A with the devs, his whole article looks like an attempt to just stir the pot and champion the disgruntled.

As you mention later, that's punditry rather than journalism I guess. You're right. I've always considered that to be a form of journalism but I understand the distinction you were making now.

(Beaides which it's not like he didn't disclose it).

So? That doesn't excuse him. It actually put into focus that all we saw there was a dev that likes to shoot his mouth off and talk honestly against an agitated journalist that was coming at Luke w/ an agenda. That's punditry, *not* journalism.

It doesn't excuse him? Who's looking for an excuse? It's context is all, and yes, it shows that he (openly and honestly) had an agenda. I would wager we just have different viewpoints on punditry, considering that's seemingly damning to you and good practice to me. Agree to disagree on that I guess.

You're right in that he came at the interview from a specific angle, but the questions were no less valid, and at no point was he especially "unprofessional" - He did his job, asked some questions and got some answers.

The 'job' here is basically a transcript of a rough exchange w/ a dev.

Press Release: The Interview. Yuck.

Wouldn't a *real* good job be that he then researched the other side of it? "Eurogamer: Fair and Balanced."

I don't know that I agree this is always necessary (again, see my views on punditry), but I get it. I expect this is what rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

What he did do is not sit and mindlessly ask the Press Release questions then come back to us with "Here is a Press Release I reworded a bit", which I appreciate. If I want a press release I'll read it from the source. Journalism is about asking questions and he did a great job doing that. Both sides said their piece with all biases disclosed and the reader can decide. Journalism.

It is great the he went off script, kudos to that, but that doesn't excuse the end result. And you're admitting now this wasn't journalism, but a debate between a fan and a dev? ("Both sides said their piece") So, no, not journalism.

Like I've mentioned, I consider punditry a branch of journalism, but it's not Journalism with a capital J. I hadn't realised the distinction you were making previously.

My disclosure: Im buying the thing because I like Collector's Editions. Bungie have made their position clear so I've made a decision.

But I feel that it's a position they've taken solely because they know they can get away with it.

Ah, NOW we're getting to that glorious of honeypots: the "they're screwing us ON PURPOSE" canard. So firmly based on truisms and facts. Evidence abounds that Bungie sat in a room and planned this whole 'How can we give a middle finger to our fans that have played for the past year?"

They've even mentioned that the CE stuff is there to bait existing players into rebuying content.

Really? They phrased it exactly that way? Really?

Luke: We've set some stuff aside for that edition specifically to really make it appeal to fans who have engaged with the game already.

Less "malicious" intent, but definitely intent. As some have said, thry'd be silly not to, but I think the point still stands. Do I think there's an evil cabal (heh) of Bungie/Activision employees out to get me? No. But they'd be stupid not to take advantage of the situation, right?

Sadly that's the way the industry works - I'll live. But I understand the "outrage" - the industry shouldn't work like that. This thing isn't that bad, but it's an easy example people can get behind.

Now here's MY DISCLOSURE. As of TODAY, RIGHT NOW, I'm only buying the $40 digital download. Because that's all I care about, choose to value as appropriate for my needs. I'm not sweating having any of the extra content, because I was never much of a sucker for those kind of things… I'll be there on the sidelines waiting for all the discussion and youtube videos of folks taking apart the goodies in the CE. And I'll enjoy it all. Thanks very much Bungie.

Almost forgot: I can't stand people who belittle others for their beliefs. Disagree all you want. Explain how wrong they are or why their beliefs are unrealistic/inappropriate/whatever. Don't just reduce them to "kids", "entitled" or "whiners". It does nothing to further discussion, all it does is make people feel shitty, small and/or angry. That's not how intelligent discourse works and it's not good for anyone.

You are doing a good job of getting it. Thanks. I'm not here to just have rational discourse, though my posts are full of just that if you're willing to get beyond where I'm slapping you in the face. But the slapping in the face (or pouring cold water on you) IS my intent here. I'm not pussyfooting around. This forum needs a wakeup call, and I'm feeling like the momentum is building. I hate that this forum is VERY much like all the other forums, b.net included. Maybe it's full of more words, more 'elite college' chin-scratching, etc. but whittled down, the tone is *exactly* the same: Bungie, fix your shit, or I hate you and all you stand for. No matter how many hours of enjoyment I've gotten out of it, you stlll suck balls and I'm done with you. THAT, my friends, is a shitty attitude. Not worthy of my siding up next to you and kissing you on the cheek and saying there, there, I got your back on this. BCecause I don't.

Every post I read here and elsewhere that says "Bungie is shitting on their hardcore fans." "I'm a first day player, and Bungie is saying Fuck you to me for my dedication." "Bungie should be rewarding me for being so faithful." "It's not the content, it's the principle."

TO ALL OF THOSE, I SAY: No, no, no and double-NO. I'm a first day player, I'm a hardcore fan, I've faithfully played the game. But I reject being lumped into this bitter group. The principle is easy to grasp: Bungie has to make things that are exclusive, as they are selling along several tiers and they different thing to entice those tiers. AND THEY HAVE NOT FINISHED STATING WHAT'S COMING. So what I call "Zero-Day-Outrage" will be mocked by me. Sorry. That's just how it's going to go.

Can you imagine the teams at Bungie that have been working on all this new stuff for the past months (or year) and they wake up to see these posts of folks basically saying how they couldn't care less about all the new content they've created… that no, THEY'RE PISSED because they choose to focus on SOME DANCE MOVES plus other minor things???

Come on, REALLY?

I'll say it again, it's embarrassing. But I also implore you: Do a good job of parsing my words. I'm *not* saying disagreeing with a move a company makes is forbidden! All I'm saying is the level of outrage does *not* match reality. In any other reasonable world, (for instance, MINE) I would say "Oh, that's cool, all that collectors stuff, awesome… aww, look at those dance moves, those new shaders, etc. What? I can't get it but only through the CE? Oh, well that sucks. Anyway, can't wait to play the new stuff!" This folks is considered a reasonable reaction. But if instead we get "WHAT? YOU MEAN I CAN'T GET THAT? WHAT HAS THIS WORLD COME TO? I HAVE BEEN ABUSED AND MY MONEY IS BEING TAKEN AGAINST MY WILL!" Sorry, I firmly reject that worldview.

I agree almost completely. The only part I take issue with (and the reason for my previous post) is the rudeness. You call it a slap in the face, I call it churlish namecalling. You're clearly a smart guy, everything you've said makes sense, and everyone tells me how nice you are. So why the attitude? Surely you could achieve the same with a well-worded argument rather than rudeness? You could probably achieve more - I know I got so annoyed by it that I forgot how much I agreed with you.

Like I said - argue. Discuss. Disagree. Call people out. Don't belittle them. It's not a wakeup call, all it does is piss people off, and angry people don't make for good discussion.