Looks kind of dumb, so it's very Star Wars alright. (Off-Topic)

by CruelLEGACEY , Toronto, Wednesday, April 17, 2019, 08:42 (1834 days ago) @ Harmanimus
edited by CruelLEGACEY, Wednesday, April 17, 2019, 08:50

So, I can totally accept if Rey doesn't jive with you as a character. That's fair, not all characters have to with everyone.

I wouldn’t put it that way, exactly. I really like Rey. I find her very compelling to watch. I think most of the credit goes to Daisy Ridley, and also J.J. Abrams. He’s very good at setting up little moments that allow the audience to connect with a character. Episode 7 had several great little moments with Rey where I felt like I could connect with her. The scene in her home in the desert, her chats with Han, or when Kylo tries to probe her mind. It’s all really great stuff, IMO. My issue is more with how the writers have missed the mark when it comes to her progression through the 2 movies so far.

She’s just impossibly powerful for no good reason. It isn’t tied to her developing her character, inner strength, moral compass... Rey is perpetually unstoppable, and always right.

I don't want to reach my arm too far into this bag of cats. However, Rey is handled in EP7 nearly identically to the handling of Luke in EP4, to include the level of explanation of her capabilities. Her arc in EP8 explicitly mirrors that of Luke's in EP5. There is nothing in the movies to support the assertion that she is impossibly powerful, unstoppable, or always right anymore than there is to make the same judgment of Luke. In fact, there is less reasons to suggest that capabilities are without merit than there are for Luke.

This isn’t about explanations of abilities. In classic hero mythology (which Star Wars certainly is), the hero’s powers and the hero’s ability to succeed over evil are direct manifestations of the development of the hero’s moral character and willingness to make the right sacrifices.

Rey’s arc only matches Luke’s if you’re looking in terms of superficial plot points. Seeks mentor for answers and training, confronts inner demons, leaves mentor, confronts bad guy. But look at what actually happens within those plot points. Luke’s powers manifest as he shifts his focus towards worthy goals. He goes from wanting adventure and action to understanding the stakes of the situation and making the decision to fight for good. Rey’s powers start to manifest like crazy when she decides to run away from her responsibilities, and then gets captured as a result. It’s literally the precise opposite of what should happen.
When Luke meets Yoda, he’s arrogant and impatient, and he fails his first test as a result. When Rey meets Luke, she immediately assumes the moral high ground, and never lets go of it. She even loses her temper and beats him in a duel. Rey’s whole time with Luke was more about showing that he needed her more than she needed him.
When Luke rushes away from Yoda to go save his friends, he does so for the right moral reasons, but thoughtlessly and prematurely. Ultimately, it was arrogant of him to think he could face Vader, and Vader teaches him that lesson quite thoroughly. Rey meanwhile rushes off to confront Wren AND Snoke, gets caught up in Wren’s moment of growth and ascension. Then she walks out as the only one left standing.
I think the important questions with Rey are; how is she different at the end of 8 than she was at the beginning of 7? Barely different at all, in my estimations. What has she learned? Not much that I can tell. She’s a very static character; already (nearly) flawless, already always right, already able to stand up to any evil and win.

The most optimistic interpretation of all this is that at the time we meet her, Rey is already a “hero”. She’s already gone through the personal struggles and development that have allowed her to master herself. Her actions don’t exactly support this, but hey I can look past that. But if that really is the case, then it’s just bad storytelling.

there’s no echo of Luke or Obi-Wan’s or Yoda’s “power”. For all of the great Jedi, their power was a manifestation of their inner strength and moral character.

The only defining feature that carries through for the great Jedi in the SW Film Canon is that they are all failed. For every height of inner strength or moral character they are sundered by their hubris, emotional responses, selective ignorance, or some other extreme character flaw keeping them from success. This includes Rey.

I agree in part, but there’s more to it than that IMO. There’s a reason they stress they age of the order so much. The Jedi had been the guardians and protectors of peace for thousands of years. They’re more than just an order, they represent “order” itself. Order of any kind decays over time. Either through entropy or the failings of individuals or both, that which used to work will not work forever. Not without changing and adapting. Order needs updating to remain effective. But the Jedi order was too traditional, too engrained in their dogmatic ways, and they were completely unprepared for an evil like Palpatine. Even the very best Jedi, such as Yoda, Obi Wan, and Mace had been forced away from their points of strength due to the war. To their credit, both Obi Wan and Yoda recognized that they just didn’t have what it takes to defeat this new power that was facing them.

That’s why they hid. It wasn’t purely out of fear, it was a recognition of their limitations, and the need for something new. Luke and Leia were that “something”. All this matters, because in Luke’s case, his relative lack of training is precisely why he was able to do what needed to be done. If he’d grown up under Yoda and Obi Wan’s tutelage, he’d have gone to the Death Star with the intention to kill Vader, and lost. OR he’d have killed vader (fulfilling his Jedi duty) and then probably turned to the dark side and become the emperor’s new apprentice. That’s the whole crux of Luke he wasn’t powerful enough to defeat the emperor. He never stood a chance that way. All he could do was show his father, through action, what a TRUE Jedi looks like. Vader is the one with the real power. He is all that remains of the once great Jedi order. All their tradition, strength, wisdom and power is in him. He is also the ultimate embodiment of their faults. Their arrogance, lack of foresight, and cowardice. But Luke shows his father love; the one thing the Jedi order has always tried to keep from Anakin, and the thing they were perhaps missing above all else. And in that moment, Vader finally becomes what he’d always been told he’d become. And it takes everything. He is the point where thousands of years of tradition and the unbroken hope and love of his son come together. That’s why he, and no one else, is strong enough to beat palpatine.

I agree with most of the rest of your commentary. Not so much with the groundwork for a redemption arc for Ren, but that doesn't mean it will stop them from doing. Just like there is absolutely no reason to bring in a romantic subplot or superplot regarding Rey or Kylo (let alone both) but that won't necessarily stop them from doing it.

But Rey is more fleshed out as a central character than either Luke or Anakin (if you argue that the Prequels are about Obi-Wan it is much less clear) were by their second, possibly even the third.

I guess it depends what you mean by “developed”. I agree in the sense that I feel like I know her. And if any of my ramblings make sense, hopefully it shows that I’m looking at it with more of an eye for what the story is really about, on the deepest levels. I actually really enjoyed The Last Jedi. I think it’s a great movie. But the more time goes on, the more I can see why so many hardcore Star Wars fans dislike it (no, I don’t believe it’s because of sexism or any of that nonsense... most of the people who bash TLJ will turn around and praise Wonderwoman or Terminator 2, and rightly so). At its heart, The Last Jedi doesn’t seem to be about any of the core ideas that Star Wars has always been about. I still like it for
what it is, and I’m very attached to some of these new characters. I’m just not convinced that episode 9 will buck the trend of this new trilogy; movies that look and sound like Star Wars, but aren’t always true to the spirit of the franchise.