Yes, wait. (Off-Topic)

by Ragashingo , Official DBO Cryptarch, Sunday, April 21, 2019, 10:39 (1832 days ago) @ cheapLEY
edited by Ragashingo, Sunday, April 21, 2019, 11:22

I’m on mobile so I don’t have a great way to reply to all this, so this will be quick and does skip over some of what you said here.

Cool. I can tell you read it all, so skipping around a bit is perfectly fine. Heck, this is quite the reply for being on mobile! :)

As always it’s probably just down to communicating effectively in this manner is difficult. People will naturally interpret the same words in different ways.

But I honestly don’t know how to read “if you can’t admit that then I don’t know why you’re here and this conversation is over” as anything other than abrasive. It feels very much like “concede or get lost,” to me.

It was more meant as a "if you can't back down from your 'literally nothing' stance then we will have to agree to disagree." But, yeah, said with a somewhat harsher tone. But in reply to a wall of stubbornness, so I'd argue I get some leeway there...

Likewise, I don’t see Cruel’s initial “I think you’re just seeing what you want to see” as very problematic, personally, but I can absolutely understand how and why you might interpret it the way you did. Partly, it’s because I play with Cruel all the time, and I’ve only played with you very few times. I personally feel like I know the way Cruel actually speaks far better than the way I know how you speak, and it gives me just a little more ability to parse what he’s actually saying and forgive some error in language.

Yeah... let me explain that one a bit more. It actually involves Star Wars. I see Cruel as one of a sizable crowd that is unhappy with Rey's role in these new movies. That she has too much power/luck/ability/plot significance to truly be a good character. He's stated this more or less around here. I saw his "you're reading into it" reply as essentially an accusation that I was defending Luke / attacking Rey because I believed Rey was a perfectly fine, fully well rounded character. The Star Wars community itself... it's not like horribly fractured down this line, but there is some solid disagreement. The funny thing is though... I'm not sure what I think on the issue. I like the way Rey is acted. I think she's gotten a lot of good moments of everything from awesome to troubled to making bad decisions out of fear and longing. But, at the same time... I think there is at least some truth to the "Rey is overpowered" line of thinking. I've been sniped at quite cruelly elsewhere for not agreeing that Rey is too perfect or for not conceding that she is a perfectly realized character, for instance. (Accusations of sexism came into play. If it's not fun when we argue around here, I can assure you it's 100x less fun to try to have a conversation once accusations of gender bias start getting tossed around!)

So... when I get told that I'm reading things into the fight when I myself am neutral on Rey and her over/under significance... yeah... it's one of those "how can you claim to know what I'm thinking when even I don't fully know what I'm thinking" type moments. And thus "you're reading what you want to see" stings all the more.

That said, I assume that's where Cruel was coming from / going. I didn't verify it. That's a big mistake on my part.

It's dragging the forum down guys. I'd love to find some better way to work past this with the both of you. What can I do to help with that? And, will I ever see some concession from either of you for your parts in all this?

Oh, you mean something like this:

FWIW, I know that I am guilty of the same thing. My language is often harsher than I intend.

Yes. That's a solid "my bad" on my part. I do see similar attitudes from the both of you regarding my postings so I saved a bit of time by combining them. I did read what you'd said and meant to reply to that part but it got lost along the way. You totally deserved to have your words recognized there.

Or should we just never ever reply to each other ever again?

That would be unfortunate. I certainly hope that isn’t what happens.

Many times when I read these threads, I feel like I see you demanding people evaluate and reconsider things they’ve said in a very specific manner, but you ignore the effect of specific things you say at the same time.

I hold no grudge against you, no hard feelings at all. Truly. I like reading your posts on this forum, and if I was still playing Destiny I’d love to play with you.

As I said, I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you told me very specifically once not to, and I won’t ignore that. You seem to want to fight fire with fire, and I won’t blame you for that. But you have read offense in many things where I believe none was intended. That is easy for me to say, as those things were not aimed at me however.

I post different ways at different times. Like our argument about cheating recently. I was in a playful mood and choose to draw out my point over a few posts to emphasize it. It was a bit unfair in terms of straight up debating and notably, was very different from the straight up way I approached this conversation. But you had no way to know the difference, so it's not your problem. So yes, when in doubt hold my feet to the fire. Because when you do so we all get to move forward a bit with discussions like these.

I am far from innocent on this forum. I have made more than my fair share of emotional outbursts and accusations, there’s no denying that. I often feel like I am the least analytical person on this forum.

Again, I chalk a lot of this up to the difficulty of trying to interpret inflection in the written word. I completely understand having a viceral emotional reaction to something that is perceived as a personal attack.

Sometimes it also happens that someone doubles down on an absolute. "Literally nothing" is a straight up conversation ender. And yet, I got blamed for not being open to others' opinions. That's just unfair. But I do appreciate this reply post of yours. A lot. I think it helps when we can explain ourselves free of accusing the other of hissy fits and what not.

I don’t know what the answer is.

I think "wait a second... time out, let me explain my thought process" posts earlier in these threads would help. I think there were some assumptions on both sides here that shouldn't have been made and a more thoughtful single post derail instead of weaving in insults and personal attacks until it all blows up would be a better way to proceed. My previous post (the one you just replied to) is what my version of that looks like. Next time I have a disagreement with you or Cruel I'll try and reach that point faster instead of sniping or sniping back.